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-   -   The DL dilemma (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=95650)

maddog78 01-05-2013 11:06 AM

The DL dilemma
 
This is the total non-special teams snaps breakdown of Steeler DL in 2012. If they don't resign Hamp and Keisel to band-aid for one more year, we'd better hope that we switch to more of a one-gap approach. We simply don't have young linemen to play LeBeau's style of 3-4 anymore, otherwise they'd have taken snaps from Keisel and Hampton this year, both of whom noticeably slipped.

Keisel - 939
Hood - 888
Hampton - 497
Heyward - 263
McClendon - 136
Woods - 36
Ta'amu - 0
Fangupo - 0

SteelersCanada 01-05-2013 11:10 AM

Re: The DL dilemma
 
Both Heyward and McLendon generated more pressure than Hampton and Keisel when they were on the field. Out of some misguided sense of loyalty, LeBeau decided to play his aging veterans over the younger guys who, on tape, were more effective.

Our DL is fine if we start the young guys.

maddog78 01-05-2013 11:16 AM

Re: The DL dilemma
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelersCanada (Post 1074191)
Both Heyward and McLendon generated more pressure than Hampton and Keisel when they were on the field. Out of some misguided sense of loyalty, LeBeau decided to play his aging veterans over the younger guys who, on tape, were more effective.

Our DL is fine if we start the young guys.

That's the problem - DL get neutered in Dick's scheme to play 2-gap read and react. Our young guys are better suited at crashing the pocket, but they get broken like stallions in this scheme.

Remember Ta'amu's comments in minicamp? DL are disciplined for getting to the QB. We need new linemen or a new coordinator. If Dick insists on playing two-gap and Hamp and Keis are gone, the defense will get shredded.

Ta‘amu is required to occupy blocks with his wide frame and stay gap-sound rather than use his athleticism to make plays. He found out at minicamp that‘s not as easy as it might seem.

“I got to the quarterback on one play, but the coaches told me that we are a gap team and we don‘t need a Superman, Ta‘amu said



Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...#ixzz2H7P5PyVZ

SteelersCanada 01-05-2013 11:22 AM

Re: The DL dilemma
 
You're not wrong but you're going to get crucified for saying we need a new defensive coordinator. LeBeau is treated like he's a god, despite having a very predictable and very ineffective defensive
scheme that he's clinging onto in hopes it'll keep working.

We need to use the talent that our guys bring and not assign them to fill gaps and, as you put it, neuter their talent. You know who doesn't have this kind of defense and knows how to build a defense around the talent of his guys? Lovie Smith. That's all I'm saying.

kan_t 01-05-2013 11:32 AM

Re: The DL dilemma
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maddog78 (Post 1074193)
That's the problem - DL get neutered in Dick's scheme to play 2-gap read and react. Our young guys are better suited at crashing the pocket, but they get broken like stallions in this scheme.

Remember Ta'amu's comments in minicamp? DL are disciplined for getting to the QB. We need new linemen or a new coordinator. If Dick insists on playing two-gap and Hamp and Keis are gone, the defense will get shredded.

Ta‘amu is required to occupy blocks with his wide frame and stay gap-sound rather than use his athleticism to make plays. He found out at minicamp that‘s not as easy as it might seem.

“I got to the quarterback on one play, but the coaches told me that we are a gap team and we don‘t need a Superman,” Ta‘amu said



Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...#ixzz2H7P5PyVZ

Or they learn how to be discipline first. They may get to the quarterback on one play. But an un-discipline DL will normally get crushed in many other plays by good QB. Once the players have experience, they would know when is the time to make play or occupy blocks. Hampton in his prime made lots of plays. McClendon has already shown that he can play the NT role nicely. Heyward is also definitely on the right track to fill in.

I don't see that the DL is going to break down like you said.

Riddle_Of_Steel 01-05-2013 11:49 AM

Re: The DL dilemma
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maddog78 (Post 1074193)
That's the problem - DL get neutered in Dick's scheme to play 2-gap read and react. Our young guys are better suited at crashing the pocket, but they get broken like stallions in this scheme.

Remember Ta'amu's comments in minicamp? DL are disciplined for getting to the QB. We need new linemen or a new coordinator. If Dick insists on playing two-gap and Hamp and Keis are gone, the defense will get shredded.

Ta‘amu is required to occupy blocks with his wide frame and stay gap-sound rather than use his athleticism to make plays. He found out at minicamp that‘s not as easy as it might seem.

“I got to the quarterback on one play, but the coaches told me that we are a gap team and we don‘t need a Superman,” Ta‘amu said



Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...#ixzz2H7P5PyVZ

Good post.

I've been saying this for awhile. Heyward and Hood are one-gap linemen made to collapse the pocket. They are ideal 4-3 ends.

Instead, we have them trying to occupy two blockers and maintain gaps, that someone with Aaron SMith's huge wingspan was better suited for.

I assumed like many here that when we drafted these guys, the implicit intention was to eventually shift to Tomlin's version of the Tampa-2. Timmons' speed and coverage ability is also a fit for that scheme (Spence as well?). Maybe that is what we are seeing? They will trickel enough 4-3 personnel into the roster until they can make the full-blown shift in scheme?

Everyone thinks Dick Lebeau is untouchable around here.

If we can expect our offensive coordinators to adapt a scheme to fit the personnel we have on the field, why can't we expect the defensive coordinator to use a scheme that works to the advantage of the talent available too?

Maybe that is trying to shoehorn a triangle into the round hole, Dick Lebeau wrote the book on the 3-4 fire blitz-- it is his trademark thing. I don't recall much about him prior to his stints as our defensive coordinator, but has DL ever ran a 4-3 before?

I am also in favor of the saying 'don't fix it if it ain't broken'. We had the #1 defense for pretty much the whole last decade plus more. The defense was defeinitely not perfect this year, but we hardly have much to complain about there.

Games like that K-C outing worry me though. They were basically running the ball at will through Hood's gap. He is not being used properly. and I don't think Heyward will either.

Riddle_Of_Steel 01-05-2013 11:55 AM

Re: The DL dilemma
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kan_t (Post 1074200)
Or they learn how to be discipline first. They may get to the quarterback on one play. But an un-discipline DL will normally get crushed in many other plays by good QB. Once the players have experience, they would know when is the time to make play or occupy blocks. Hampton in his prime made lots of plays. McLendon has already shown that he can play the NT role nicely. Heyward is also definitely on the right track to fill in.

I don't see that the DL is going to break down like you said.

Good call on McClendon. Dude looks like a force to be reckoned with out there. Don't know what the coaches are not seeing about him.

I do worry about the direction of the defensive line though. That KC game was a perfect example of why. They were running the ball at will through Hood and Woodley's side.

cbrunn 01-05-2013 11:56 AM

Re: The DL dilemma
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel (Post 1074204)
Good post.

I've been saying this for awhile. Heyward and Hood are one-gap linemen made to collapse the pocket. They are ideal 4-3 ends.

Instead, we have them trying to occupy two blockers and maintain gaps, that someone with Aaron SMith's huge wingspan was better suited for.

I assumed like many here that when we drafted these guys, the implicit intention was to eventually shift to Tomlin's version of the Tampa-2. Timmons' speed and coverage ability is also a fit for that scheme (Spence as well?). Maybe that is what we are seeing? They will trickel enough 4-3 personnel into the roster until they can make the full-blown shift in scheme?

Everyone thinks Dick Lebeau is untouchable around here.

If we can expect our offensive coordinators to adapt a scheme to fit the personnel we have on the field, why can't we expect the defensive coordinator to use a scheme that works to the advantage of the talent available too?

Maybe that is trying to shoehorn a triangle into the round hole, Dick Lebeau wrote the book on the 3-4 fire blitz-- it is his trademark thing. I don't recall much about him prior to his stints as our defensive coordinator, but has DL ever ran a 4-3 before?

I am also in favor of the saying 'don't fix it if it ain't broken'. We had the #1 defense for pretty much the whole last decade plus more. The defense was defeinitely not perfect this year, but we hardly have much to complain about there.

Games like that K-C outing worry me though. They were basically running the ball at will through Hood's gap. He is not being used properly. and I don't think Heyward will either.

I think Tomlin and Colbert were expecting DL to retire by now , as they can't just fire him ... But Tomlin came from a 4-3 if I'm not mistaking ... and the drafting since he came seems more fitted for the 4-3

DE - Worilds / Heyward
DT - Heyward / Tamu
DT - Hood / Mclendon
De - Woodley / ??

OLB - Timmons /
MLB - ??
OLB - Spence / Sly

Need a MLB and some more DE ... but it could easily work

maddog78 01-05-2013 11:57 AM

Re: The DL dilemma
 
Hood is an ideal 4-3 DT, not end....too fat to play DE on the edge. Worilds and Woodley would man those positions.

McClendon is great on passing downs, but gets moved too easily in the run game. Another 4-3 DT.

steeltheone 01-05-2013 12:40 PM

Re: The DL dilemma
 
Ta‘amu is a criminal and should not be a Steeler.

Keisel makes more than Hood, Heyward, Mclendon, Woods and Criminal combined. It's obvious he is not worth that.

Cut Kiesel, Hampton and go with the youngsters.


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