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-   -   Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=96050)

Steelers5895 01-21-2013 11:24 AM

Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses
 
I know I am going to get killed for this but if you look at history, Dick Lebeau's defenses are not championship defenses. (Steel Curtain, Doomsday, 85 Bears, Bellicheck from the Giants and early Pat Years, 2000 Ravens).

Sure, he has 2 Super Bowl wins but for top regular season ranked defenses, none were dominant playoff/Super Bowl defenses. in fact you can go back to when he was the D Coordinator for the bengals.

The Steelers defense was helped a ton in Super Bowl 40 by documented poor officiating. Not saying we would have lost but Seattle would have made a better run of it.

Big Ben bailed out the defense in Super Bowl 43.

Packers had their way in Super Bowl 45.

Plus the 49ers were able to come back on his defense when he was in Cincy.

My point is, I am sick of the high regular season rankings and come playoffs whenever we play a high powered offense we can't stop them. In fact, Tebow tore this defense to shreds.

That being said, I think its time to go in a new direction. Add the fact his defenses are impossible for young players to grasp for 2-3 years, I dont see this changing.

I must rather see a 4-3 being run by a innovative young DC or a new style 3-4 in hopes to get us back to where we need quicker. As much as our offense was the problem in 2012, with Ben that can be fixed quick. The defense with its age and under-developing young players is going to continue to not pressure the qb, not creat turnovers, give up leads to lesser teams for a while.

harrison'samonster 01-21-2013 11:26 AM

Re: Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses
 
James Harrison 100 yrd int return! That defense in 2008 was GREAT!

Steelers5895 01-21-2013 11:37 AM

Re: Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harrison'samonster (Post 1079459)
James Harrison 100 yrd int return! That defense in 2008 was GREAT!


and after that play they should have shut it down like a great championship defense should. Arizona was demorilzed and it was a huge swing and in half 2 Arizona came back, took the league on long drives and long plays. Not to mention up until that play Arizona drove the field.

Great is what Steelers want to believe. Reality its not.

OX1947 01-21-2013 12:06 PM

Re: Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses
 
Quote:

The Steelers defense was helped a ton in Super Bowl 40 by documented poor officiating. Not saying we would have lost but Seattle would have made a better run of it.
Both teams played like crap. The penalty calls became famous. That push off in the end zone was a push off, I still do not understand why people get so bent on that one. You wanna call Haggens penalty off, fine, the Seahawks got to the 2 yard line, they didnt score on that play. If you are going to use an excuse of, that play killed the Seahawks, that means you assumed they would score a TD after that. If that is the thinking process, then what makes you think Ben wouldnt have score on a 4th and inches when they called his TD run a TD? Cowher is on the mic saying he is going for it if its 4th, so, you can not have it both ways.

Quote:

Big Ben bailed out the defense in Super Bowl 43.
Actually, the offense effed the defense in more ways then one in that game. The defense held 3 1,000 yard receiver and arguably the best Super Bowl QB, statistically, ever to 7 points through 3 quarters. Fitz was none existent for the first 3 quarter. That last drive and Fitz TD should have never happened had it not been for one of the worst winning centers in SB history holding in the end zone right before the game clinching one hip catch. So, if Hartwig doesn't hold on that play, Steelers win 20-14. Holding the Cardinals high powered offense to 14 points is pretty damn good too me.

Quote:

Packers had their way in Super Bowl 45.
3 turnovers by the offense. All momentum from there, and one was a TD. 21 points from turnovers. Otherwise, Steelers defense allow 10 points.

Quote:

Plus the 49ers were able to come back on his defense when he was in Cincy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJFOBI1cZaM


Sports is one play, one mistake, one catch or one drop from changing all of history. Some go your way, some don't. At the end of it all, the players make the plays or they don't, so blaming a coach who's great at what he does for mistakes his players make on one or two plays, is a little ignorant.

harrison'samonster 01-21-2013 12:08 PM

Re: Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelers5895 (Post 1079462)
and after that play they should have shut it down like a great championship defense should. Arizona was demorilzed and it was a huge swing and in half 2 Arizona came back, took the league on long drives and long plays. Not to mention up until that play Arizona drove the field.

Great is what Steelers want to believe. Reality its not.

Nobody can shut everybody down all the time. Arizona was playing lights out for those playoffs. Ppl want to discredit them, but with Warner and Fitz that team was playing out of this world good.

lloydwoodson 01-21-2013 12:13 PM

Re: Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses
 
Superbowl XL Seahawks scored 10 points.

Superbowl XLIII Cardinals scored 23 points - the defense scored 7 - allowed 16 point net. Not bad against a record-setting playoffs from Fitzgerald. Cardinals had scored more than 30 in 4 straight games.

Superbowl XLV Packers scored 24 (7 points from a pick 6 made 31). Packers scored 21 points off of 3 turnovers. A pick 6 and two drives that started on the GB 45.

harrison'samonster 01-21-2013 12:15 PM

Re: Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses
 
let's not forget that Seattle was the highest scoring team in the NFL that year we beat them, scoring 28 points per game.

lloydwoodson 01-21-2013 12:17 PM

Re: Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses
 
So 5895... this post isn't going so well for you. How is your post about rooting for the Ravens going? Or the one about possibly obtaining Demarcus Ware from the Cowboys going? :rofl:

wwhickok 01-21-2013 12:20 PM

Re: Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses
 
Yes I get that the Ravens are going to the Super Bowl. Yes I get that we shouldve won the division. But I also get that half our starters were injured at some point this season. LeBeau's defense not championship defense? So is that what happened 3 times in 9 years? (Granted we lost one of them to GB)

I think in the near future qe will move to.the 4-3. But then again...our LBs have always been our bread and butter. I like LeBeau. Im satisfied withnour season consideringnall the adversity we had to deal with. But I am also glad the FO is not satisfied.

VaDave 01-21-2013 12:47 PM

Re: Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelers5895 (Post 1079457)
I know I am going to get killed for this but if you look at history, Dick Lebeau's defenses are not championship defenses. (Steel Curtain, Doomsday, 85 Bears, Bellicheck from the Giants and early Pat Years, 2000 Ravens).

Sure, he has 2 Super Bowl wins but for top regular season ranked defenses, none were dominant playoff/Super Bowl defenses. in fact you can go back to when he was the D Coordinator for the bengals.

The Steelers defense was helped a ton in Super Bowl 40 by documented poor officiating. Not saying we would have lost but Seattle would have made a better run of it.

Big Ben bailed out the defense in Super Bowl 43.

Packers had their way in Super Bowl 45.

Plus the 49ers were able to come back on his defense when he was in Cincy.

My point is, I am sick of the high regular season rankings and come playoffs whenever we play a high powered offense we can't stop them. In fact, Tebow tore this defense to shreds.

That being said, I think its time to go in a new direction. Add the fact his defenses are impossible for young players to grasp for 2-3 years, I dont see this changing.

I must rather see a 4-3 being run by a innovative young DC or a new style 3-4 in hopes to get us back to where we need quicker. As much as our offense was the problem in 2012, with Ben that can be fixed quick. The defense with its age and under-developing young players is going to continue to not pressure the qb, not creat turnovers, give up leads to lesser teams for a while.


Just asking, but how many Superbowl winners did Buddy Ryan coach as an DC? How many has LeBeau?

I'll grant you, you aren't going to find too many defenses of the quality of our 70's Steelers today because for all preactical purposes, they've just about outlawed defense, realitively speaking.

The crazy thing is, LeBeau has probably coached in more Superbowls than any other coach besides Belicheck. Philidelphia ( under Vermeil) two at Cincinati, and 4
( if he was with us in 96) with the Steelers and two of thsioe Championships.

You may not like it, certainly, it's not everybody's cup of tea, but the dang thing is effective. It's been successful for over 3o years.

Speaking of Belicheck, how was his "Championship D" looking in the 3rd quarter yesterday?


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