Originally Posted by NSMaster56
We're just going to have to disagree here.
Ward's tough as nails and a great all-around WR, but he wasn't as 'dynamic' as most of the guys I named.
And the whole 'never had a QB' argument is not unique to him and him alone:
I mean, Sterling Sharpe had the Majik Man and Tomczak throwing to him for most of his career before Favre arrived.
Alworth had John Hadl (who appears to have been good, but is never mentioned in the annals of great QBs).
Largent had Dave Krieg, a 'Hall of very good' QB and Jim Zorn.
Poor Isaac Bruce was stuck with Chris Miller's and Tony Banks' until his sixth season.
Chris Carter had at least seven different QBs throwing him passes between 1990-2001. Tim Brown had at least six from 1988-2003.
Larry Fitz only had three years of Warner before he retired; the rest of his QBs have been Leinart's, McCown's, Skelton's, Lindell's, Kolb's and Palmers...
None of this is to denigrate Hines, merely point out how WR has primarily been a position valued for play-making [and those other guys did it better under similar conditions]. In those terms Hines is maybe in the top-20 all time (if he's lucky).
Most of Hines' 'edge' vs. the competition is built on the reputation that he was a 'rugged' receiver.
It's what made him great, for sure, but those other guys... *whistle* They're what I think of first when I think of the position.
While Tim Browns and cris Carter's QBs weren't HOFers, Randall Cunningham, Dante Culpepper, and Rich Gannon weren't slouches.
If these receivers are as good as you say they are, a "hall of very good" should be all they need. What good are these guys if they can only show these talents with super duper QBs?
And it's not like Ben is a GOAT. He's certainly my personal fav but he'll be the first one to tell you he's not Johnny U.
Some of these receivers years may have been great when their QBs showed up, I don't think a lot of these guys were known.
Sterling sharpe, Isaac bruce , and fitz(no disrespect to them) may have only had Favre and warner for a few years but those were some pretty damn good years.
Favre was Favre and Warner was a multi MVP as well. Fitz alone hasn't done much since Warner.
And no offense to sharpe, but I just can't recognize a guy that had as short a career as he did. Same with Terrell Davis.
I'd make the case Hines down years were better than most the guys you mentioned. Down years referring to when they didn't have their "marquee QBs". Especially when bens early years weren't the best for him as an individual stat.
And when lynn Swann and stallworth played for your team, it's pretty impressive for you to be the GOAT steeler WR.
And GOAT blocking receiver means something.