i read thru that thread. pretty mind numbing. the whole premise of the initial argument is that ben is only good because he was drafted by a great team (the steelers, who year in and year out acquire great players including ben) these fans are obviously not used to rooting for great players and carson is one of the few their franchise has had in years so obviously he must be great. (compared to the rest of the players they have had in the last 30 years that is true) ben just melts in with the rest of the great players steelers have had. no he dont stand out amongst them all. so that means he is average? totally laughable. the bar is set high in pittsburgh for ben. until he wins 4 sb's he will never be as great as bradshaw. the bar is pretty low in cinci. all you have to do is win 4 games in a row and of course youre great because it has never been done before (sarcasm)
so the term "great" proves itself to be relative
in cinci, compared to all their busts of draft picks and horrible players of the past, palmer is great.
in the burgh, compared to all the hall of famers and pro-bowlers ben just blends in and is average.
its like comparing apples and oranges. ben would have as much hype if he went to the cardinals, browns, texans, or giants because he would be put in the position to win more games by himself and he would be put in the position to put up huge numbers, something he can surely do. no qb alone has EVER led their team to a 15-1 season. not j. montana, marino, elway, bradshaw, brady, young...........the list goes on. that takes nothing away from bens skillz