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Old 11-08-2007, 11:17 AM   #18
tony hipchest
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Default Re: the "Jeff Gordon has never won this race 500"

Quote:
Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
The sport was pulling from one region of one country and had very little popularity outside that region. Now it's pulling talent from everywhere in the World and THAT'S why you see kids getting contracts now. And technology. It used to be that 3 rednecks with a toolbox could keep these cars on the tracks. No more.

It's completely counterintuitive to think that a talent pool of a few million produced better drivers than the talent pool of a few billion, but....I already know once you've made up your mind that you're right, NOTHING will change it, so why bother?
im gonna have to adress some of this absurdity in stages. common sense told me you would simply back off your claim that the nascar stars of 20 years ago were outclassed talentwise by the folks in the truck series today.

heres a link to all the 117 drivers who have made the field in the truck series this year. i have cropped the top 17 drivers to show that ONLY 15 of them in the truck series are capable of even making every race.

http://www.nascar.com/races/truck/20..._official.html

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RANK +/- DRIVER POINTS BEHIND STARTS POLES WINS TOP 5 TOP 10 WINNINGS
1 +1 Mike Skinner 3718 Leader 23 10 5 17 19 714,550
2 -1 Ron Hornaday 3661 -57 23 1 4 12 20 629,425
3 -- Travis Kvapil 3317 -401 23 3 4 8 12 559,375
4 +1 Todd Bodine 3254 -464 23 2 2 10 15 538,725
5 +1 Rick Crawford 3231 -487 23 0 0 10 17 408,225
6 -2 Johnny Benson 3221 -497 23 0 3 11 17 563,535
7 -- Ted Musgrave 2944 -774 22 0 1 7 15 393,400
8 -- Matt Crafton 2812 -906 23 0 0 1 10 305,025
9 +1 Jack Sprague 2752 -966 23 2 1 6 9 436,535
10 +1 Erik Darnell 2726 -992 23 0 1 3 8 347,325
11 -2 David Starr 2716 -1002 23 0 0 3 4 295,450
12 +1 Brendan Gaughan 2646 -1072 23 0 0 3 8 330,967
13 -1 Dennis Setzer 2637 -1081 23 0 1 2 5 320,130
14 -- Terry Cook 2468 -1250 23 0 0 1 4 269,665
15 -- Willie Allen* 2333 -1385 23 0 0 0 1 263,375
16 -- Tim Sauter* 2276 -1442 23 0 0 0 1 250,045
17 -- Chad McCumbee 2075 -1643 21 0 0 0 1 233,950
the best of the best in the truck series looks to be a bunch of old cup washouts. seriously, which of these (or any of the 117) wouldnt lose their ride in seconds to a dw, martin, rudd, wallace, allison, gant, etc, etc.? the pioneers would most certainly make the cut.

and the technological advances of the trucks is the absolute worst example to use, bacause when you listen to the drivers who drove the winston cup cars from 20 years ago and the trucks of today, they all pretty much say how the trucks are much more like the stock cars were back then when compared to the current car of today.

Quote:
And, again, my point is all based on common sense anyway. A talent pool of billions produces better talent that a talent pool of millions.
now its my turn to use some common sense (again). this talent pool of billions (you also said a few billion) is a complete fabrication so i cant accept that as common sense. heres why-

population of earth is around 6.5 billion or something. common sense says race car drivers arent being scouted from half the population of the world.

how many of the entire earths population even owns a car? or even driven one? its not like we are plucking kids off their bicycles from the streets of bejing, or bushmen out of the serengeti and putting them in race cars.

now im not gonna get into all the sociology behind world population/povery levels but common sense says drivers arent being found in these pools:

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Facts.asp

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Water problems affect half of humanity:
Some 1.1 billion people in developing countries have inadequate access to water, and 2.6 billion lack basic sanitation.
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Half the world — nearly three billion people — live on less than two dollars a day. source 1
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Nearly a billion people entered the 21st century unable to read a book or sign their names. source 3
billions of people dont even tune in to watch the superbowl (i believe the estimation is about 1 billion) so how can i believe their are billions of people out there watching racing and aspiring to be a driver? its one thing to sell baseball to kids in the dominican or soccer in the congo. common sense tells me im not gonna sell them a go-cart though.

kenyans may dominate the boston marathon but i can guarantee a person from kenya will never dominate any form of american motorsports.

so, census stats and the semantics of what "billions" is, aside, these are really 2 undebatable points. there is no pool of billions, and the nascar stars of yesteryear would simply kick the crap out of the talent packed field of the truck series today. and you are right.... i wont back down from those points.

however there are alot of debatable points still left over such as gordons phantom 5th ring and several others such as this that i will touch on later:

Quote:
And technology. It used to be that 3 rednecks with a toolbox could keep these cars on the tracks. No more.
yeah, and snoopy could pilot the sopwith camel
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