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Old 02-02-2008, 02:50 PM   #44
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Default Re: Sorry to all the Giuliani fans on SF.

Originally Posted by Stlrs4Life View Post
You would get the same care you get today. Only change would be it would be cheaper for you. Doctors would make a little less. Regardless, the healthcare system we have now is not working.
Sorry, but you are very wrong. My family lives in Canada. Do you really want to hear about the year plus wait my aunt is dealing with in agony waiting to get surgery on her liver? Then, when the surgery is available to she will have to fly hundred of miles away, because BC provincial healthcare only does those surgeries in a couple places.

Or do you want to discuss how long my uncle had to wait for knee replacement surgery?

In the US, both operations would have been done within a couple WEEKS.

Those prolonged surgeries are costing Canada BILLIONS of dollars in EXTRA health care costs (see link in quoted portion) because other problems are being caused by the original issue that is not yet taken care of.

Instead of me going on, let me quote from a post I wrote in another forum

3. On the general state of health care. I read that we are ranked 37th, and how bad is that. I say, what a crock. We are ranked 37th (World Health Organization) because the system used to rank us is tilted towards free healthcare and so-called "availability." Matter of fact, here are the five points which these rankings are dependent,
WHO’s assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system’s financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).
Look at each of these. All but the first one IS BASED ON FINANCES. So we are number 37, out of 180 plus health care systems in people being able to get decent health care. Furthermore, 2 or these are PURELY SUBJECTIVE. SO if you have been TOLD that your system sucks (as we have for years), then you reflect that in a survey. I have been to doctors in the states, I have been to doctors in Canada, I have been to doctors in Turkey, and I gotta say, of all three, my best experience, is IN THE USA. Is it affordable for all? No. But spinning it towards socialized medicine is simply wrong. Why? Thanks for asking....

4. Socialized medicine produces second rate health care for the masses. Right now in our country, ANYONE can get a job, and if they have health benefits, they can go to any number of excellent hospitals and doctors. However, if we moved to a socialized medicine, that all goes away. You are now assigned to a doctor/hospital. You have no ability to go outside that, and if you can, you still have to pay (via taxes) the wages for the doctor in the social system.

What is worse, is what has happened in Canada. In B.C., almost all major surgeries are now done in Vancouver. That means if you want a major surgery, you get put on a waiting list to be flown down there. I have an aunt that has been waiting for over a year for surgery to repair her liver(?) It is a necessary surgery as she is in major pain. However, because people from all over the province keep having problems (heart attacks, etc.) that are greater, she gets moved back further and further. Socialized medicine creates massive backlogs of patients (See Canada's discussion of its costs via backlog here) of its costs because of this backlog here. Someone here is going to pull out a small nation in Europe.. to which I will respond.. 300 MILLION people in this country. There simply is no comparison to small European countries.

The result, is that the top 1 or 3 percent of people fly to the US to get those surgeries. This is surprising like the old U.S.S.R., where everyone went to the average hospital, but the "Special" ones got "Special" treatment in top of the line hospitals.

Speaking of coming to America... socialized medicine also creates what is called the "Brain Drain." Canada is losing a number of its doctors, and now many other professionals, because the taxes continually increase, making it not feasible for professionals to live in Canada.

This is NOT what we want here. What we need to do in this country is NOT SOCIALIZE the medicine, rather, we need to bring the costs back under control. That is done in a number of ways, including limiting lawsuits and insurance premiums (please tell me you all do realize that doctors are paying upwards of HALF A MILLION A YEAR in insurance ALONE... and that is before they pay for their office, their staff, etc. etc. That includes lawsuits against drug companies. Turn on the TV during the day, and see how many adds there are by lawyers who are trying to get class action suits against drug companies. If just ONE of those wins, just how much money gets paid out.. most to the lawyers?

Also... Medicare needs to be complete revamped, as it is driving the ENTIRE HEALTH CARE COST SKYWARD. Here is what happens. Medicare pays a base rate for a visit. If the doctors don't take medicare, then they get cut out of a number of other things. SO most doctors take medicare. Now, when they see patients, they only get the medicare (MC) allowable rate, which is often times 70, 80, 90 percent below what is charged... and is set by the feds. The doctors and hospitals (having to cover their enormous insurance premiums) have to make up that money. So what they do, is they double their rates, knowing that the insurance companies will only pay contract anyways. that does three things. 1. It prices a visit out of reach for a non-insurance person. 2. It gives a better bargaining tool for the doctors to deal with the insurance companies next contract, and 3, and this is the biggest, it drives up the MC allowable for the next year, as MC fixes their rate based on percentage of charge (either a real number for many of the providers, or percentages for hospitals). SO the doctors will raise their rate from 50 dollars a visit to 150 a visit, so that medicare will pay 30 a visit instead of 20 a visit. Meanwhile, the uninsured are left in the cold.

The way to fix it is to drive medicare SOLELY through the health insurance companies, and allow the companies to make their own contracts with the providers and hospitals, within a set limit... much like, as is kinda funny, NFL teams do with salary caps.

that is just a first couple of steps.
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