Jerry Sandusky child sex-abuse trial

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan

Recall that slavery was "normal" in this country until 1865 and that outlawing interrracial marriage was not held to be unconstitutional until the mid-1960s - care to drive down the road yoiu are traveling a little farther and equate the "normalization" of interracial marriage to pedophiia?

Now Dan, my posts in this thread have all descended from the same premise that there is a direct and active relationship (no pun) between homosexuality and pedophilia of the homosexual variety, which by the way dwarfs it's counterpart. And my posts are in response to Vis' snit about Sandusky. He knows why.

The homosexual community, the psychobabblers, and academia are all colluding to normalize pedophilia, just as they did homosexuality for the simple reason that lots of homosexuals like little boys and know full that molesting them gives them instant gratification, as well as restocks their pond, if you will. After all, they can't procreate, and they're dropping like flies.

I would urge you to read "Homosexual Activists Work To Normalize Sex With Boys" http://us2000.org/cfmc/Pedophilia.pdf

But one quote... "Kevin Bishop, an admitted pederast (pedophile), is promoting the work of the North American Man - Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) in South Africa. Bishop, who was molested at the age of six, is also an admitted homosexual who is blunt about the relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia. “Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile,” said Bishop in an interview with the Electronic Mail & Guard i a n ( June 30, 1997) .

That makes several key points, but one that I believe is essential to understanding the relationship between peds and moes - many homosexuals are homosexual because they were molested as children.

http://home60515.com/3.html
Sexual Abuse: A Major Cause Of Homosexuality?

It is a well-documented fact that many many homosexuals were sexually abused when young. (This paper will conclude with a list of some books which support that statement.)

In other words, there is an abundance of evidence that many homosexuals were born heterosexual but were disoriented by sexual abuse.

Indeed, there are many more cases of sexual abuse than there are cases of homosexuality. As one large study discussed in a 1997 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found, on average 12.8% of women and 4.3% of men recall being sexually abused.1 (How many do not recall it?)

According to Dr. James E. Soukup, author of a book which deals with several subjects including sexual abuse: "In one national study in 1985, 27 percent of the females interviewed and 16 percent of the males reported to have been sexually abused as children. Other studies indicate that these figures are too low. It is suggested that eighty percent of all sexual abuse is not reported."2

The Associated Press noted in late 1998 that, according to an analysis of 166 studies covering the years 1985-97: "As many as one in five boys is sexually abused....It [also] concluded that sexual abuse of boys is underreported and undertreated....Earlier studies have shown that 25 percent to 35 percent of girls are sexually abused."3

(According to a JAMA review of literature re the sexual abuse of boys, only 10%-33% of male abuse victims ever tell anyone about that abuse.4 The review also found that: "Abused [male] adolescents, particularly those victimized by males, were up to 7 times more likely to self-identify as gay or bisexual than peers who had not been abused."5 And regarding female abuse victims, one study found that 38% of adult women ages 18-31 who were sexually abused when young [between ages 10 months to 12 years] did not remember that they were sexually abused when young.6)

Whatever the true percentages are of male and female sex abuse victims, considering how high the suggested/reported numbers are compared to the percentage of the population that is homosexual (only 1%-2%), we can see that sexual abuse can theoretically account for every case of homosexuality.

Too, there currently is no definitive proof that anyone is born homosexual. Several studies by homosexual researchers claimed to find some possible biological bases for homosexuality. But other scientists easily pointed out the flaws in those studies, and the results of those studies have yet to be replicated by others. In the words of pro-homosexual Newsweek magazine: "In the early '90s, three highly publicized studies seemed to suggest that homosexuality's roots were genetic....More than five years later the data have never been replicated."7 (This fact has been almost totally ignored by the biased, untrustworthy, dominant liberal media.) And in the May/June 2008 issue of Psychology Today we have this: "No one has yet identified a particular gay gene....There is no all-inclusive explanation for the variation in sexual orientation, at least none supported by actual evidence....[T]here are many different mechanisms [involving both nature and nurture], not a single one, for producing homosexuality."8

So how can anyone claim, in good conscience, that homosexuals are born that way and have no choice? When someone says they are homosexual, our first response should be to try and find out if he/she was sexually abused and, if so, to then punish the abuser. Our next response should be to provide therapy to homosexuals to help them cope with their problems.

Those who push the born-homosexual line are effectively ignoring the sexual abuse of children. What kind of "people" want to let pedophiles get away with sexually abusing little kids?

(If sexual abuse happens to a one-year or two-year old child, he or she may not remember it later in life because it happened at such a young age. However, the trauma can govern the rest of the victim's life. Some homosexuals will swear they were never sexually abused, but they have no way of knowing for sure.)

Skilled psychologists and psychiatrists like Masters and Johnson, Charles Socarides, Joseph Nicolosi, Benjamin Kaufman, Elizabeth Moberly, Jeffrey Satinover, and Gerard van den Aardweg, have had success changing homosexuals into heterosexuals. (They have been successful because most if not all homosexuals were probably born heterosexual.)

Dr. Reuben Fine, Director of the New York Center for Psychoanalytic Training: "It is paradoxical that even though the politically active homosexual group[s] denies the possibility of change, all studies from Schrenk-Notzing on have found positive effects, virtually regardless of the kind of treatment used....If the homosexual patients were motivated, whatever procedure [i.e., treatment] is adopted, a large percentage will give up their homosexuality."9

Those who oppose using therapy to change homosexuals into heterosexuals are, in effect, trying to keep homosexuals locked into homosexuality. Those who oppose such therapy do not want homosexuals to have a choice, a way out of homosexuality. That's un-American, inhumane, intolerant, and meanly oppressive.

In addition, considering all the solid scientific evidence that many homosexuals are mentally disturbed to one degree or another because of sexual abuse (or dysfunctional parents or other negative developmental influences many homosexuals experienced), it is clear that those psychiatrists and psychologists who say homosexuality should NOT be on the officially approved list of mental illnesses are seemingly incompetent malpractitioners. They appear to be more interested in being "politically correct" than in the truth. Incompetent malpractitioners should have their licenses to ply their professions revoked.

(A book written by Dr. Ronald Bayer, a pro-homosexual psychiatrist, titled Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis, explains how the decision to remove homosexuality from the officially approved list of mental disorders was based on power politics and intimidation by homosexual groups NOT science.)

One last note: Homosexuals do not want you to know that many of them were sexually abused when young, because many people who were so abused go on to molest others. And homosexuals do not want you to know that they are more likely to molest children than heterosexuals are.10 (Note of clarification: While that is a fact, there is no proof at this time that it is because of their homosexuality, but rather because so many of them were sexually abused themselves.)

Scads of footnotes in the article


http://www.theinterim.com/2002/sept/02study.html
Study shows link between homosexuality and pedophilia
By Interim Staff

A new study by Dr. Timothy J. Dailey and the Washington D.C.-based Family Research Council recently confirmed what police and psychiatrists have known for decades: a definitive link exists between male homosexuality and pedophilia.

The report entitled Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse, shows that while homosexual men make up less than three per cent of the adult male population, they commit a disproportionate number (one third or more) of child sexual molestations. Dailey's report is being sent to parents, youth groups, school administrators, Catholic bishops, and religious organizations.

Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse presents a number of controversial findings. The first is that a significant percentage of child sexual abuse victims are boys. The second finding of Dailey's report contradicts the "inaccurate but widely accepted claims of sex researcher Alfred Kinsey" that homosexuals comprise at least 10 per cent of the population. Based upon a study of three large data sets, the General Social Survey, the National Health and Social Life Survey, and the U.S. Census, "a recent study in demography estimates the number of exclusive male homosexuals in the general population at 2.5 per cent, and the number of exclusive lesbians at 1.4 per cent," writes Dailey.

The FRC study also demonstrates, with a wealth of anecdotal evidence, that pedophile themes can be found throughout "mainstream" gay literature, including fiction anthologies such as: The Penguin Book on International Gay Writing, The Gay Canon: What Every Gay Man Should Read, and A History of Gay Literature:The Male Tradition. Interestingly, the late gay Beat poet Allen Ginsberg was a pedophile, and wrote articles for publications associated with the North American Man-Boy Love Association. "I reread Collected Poems and Ginsberg's two subsequent collections, surprised by the pattern of reference to anal intercourse and to pederasty that emerged," writes Dailey.

According to Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse, pedophiles have long existed as a subculture within the gay rights movement. Dailey quotes David Thorstad, a homosexual activist and founding member of NAMBLA, to demonstrate that by 1985, pedophilia had gained acceptance within the homosexual movement, as it was in that year that NAMBLA was admitted as a member in New York's council of Lesbian and Gay Organizations and the International Gay Association. In the words of Jim Kepner, at one time the curator of the International Gay and Lesbian Archives in Los Angeles: "A point I've been trying to make is that if we reject the boylovers in our midst today, we'd better stop waving the banner of the ancient Greeks, of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Oscar Wilde, Walt Whitman, Horatio Alger, and Shakespeare. We'd better stop claiming them as part of our history unless we are broadening our concept of what it means to be gay."

The link between homosexuality and pedophilia is rejected by many mainstream research groups, which have even begun to view pedophilia in value-neutral terms. The American Psychiatric Association removed pedophilia from its list of sexual perversions in 1994, while in 1999 the American Psychological Association published a report, "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples," which "claimed child sexual abuse could be harmless and beneficial," according to a 1999 WorldNetDaily column by noted researcher Dr. Judith Reisman.

"None of this is news in the sense that this information (the link between pedophilia and homosexuality) was fundamentally proven a long time ago," Canada Family Action head Brian Rushfeldt told The Interim, "but I'm glad to see the FRC reiterating it, especially at a time when the Catholic church is struggling with the pedophile priest issue."

Rushfeldt stresses that pedophiles come in both homosexual and heterosexual forms, but there are differences between the two that need to be understood. "Do you treat the cocaine addict the same way you treat the alcoholic? If a priest abuses young boys, that's a homosexual act, and we have to recognize it as such if we want to help him."

Asked why the link exists in the first place, Rushfeldt, a former addiction counsellor, says part of the answer lies in the availability of sex. "Sex addicts generally need instant gratification. They have a very low threshold for delaying gratification, and it's much easier to manipulate a young boy into having sex than it is to manipulate another man." He adds that homosexual pedophilia is influenced by other factors as well.

"There's a distinct quality about male homosexuality that gay men tend to be attracted to young, good-looking guys. Another part of pedophilia's appeal is the power the pedophile feels in manipulating the boy. It's a combination of things."

Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan

Just because you have obvious issues with homosexuality does not equate it to pedophilia

My issues with homosexuality are manyfold, but they all descend from the lies that "support" its promotion. I have a low threshold of tolerance to bull#$%^.

Calling people that disagree with homosexuality "homophobes" is every bit as infantile as calling people that disagree with bho racists.

Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan

But mad props to you for hijacking the thread

[Lady Steel]

There's a special place in Hell waiting for Jerry Sandusky. What he did is NOT okay.

[SteelersinCA]

How do we go from this....

Originally Posted by Vincent

a small, radical organization...Contrary to the views of some on the radical fringe...B4U-ACT is a small group of mental health professionals and pedophile activists who seek greater tolerance for “minor-attracted persons” ...The fringe activists ... fringe radicals as irrelevant.

To this? Small and radical, to entire communities????

Originally Posted by Vincent

The homosexual community, the psychobabblers, and academia are all colluding to normalize pedophilia, just as they did homosexuality for the simple reason that lots of homosexuals like little boys and know full that molesting them gives them instant gratification, as well as restocks their pond, if you will. After all, they can't procreate, and they're dropping like flies.

Originally Posted by Vincent

You may be too young to remember the campaign to normalize homosexuality. The campaign to normalize pedophilia is following the exact script. Why not? It worked. I think the window will be shorter this time, like 3-5 years. Watch for it.

As Dan has pointed out, it follows about the same campaign plan to abolish slavery, suffrage and various other social movements. Those all led us to pedophilia too?

Originally Posted by Vincent

How do you say that when "only 7% (of homosexual pedophiles) identified themselves as exclusively sexually attracted to children", indicating that the vast majority carried their "orientation" into the abuse of children."...And "a particularly revealing statistic is that "the percentage of homosexual pedophiles ranges from 9% to 40%, which is approximately 4 to 20 times higher than the rate of adult men attracted to other adult men"?

Just because such a nexus is distasteful to you doesn't negate its existence.

I'm not sure you understand statistics at a scientific level. A range of 9%-40% is hardly anywhere close to a typical 95% confidence level that most scientists would rely on to stand behind their findings. Saying that 7% of a group are only attracted to children doesn't mean there is a causal link between pedophilia and homosexuality. How many heterosexual pedophiles say they are only attracted to children? Here's a hint:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/666571?dopt=Abstract

The possibility emerges that homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia may be mutually exclusive and that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater risk to the underage child than does the adult homosexual male.

It says girls are assaulted more than double boys, oh no, look out Vincent, you're on the road to pedophilia!!!!!!!

[SCMom]

Our increasingly permissive culture is not equally permissive in all directions. You are ignoring certain clear trends.

For one thing, it has become increasingly more 'shameful' for a man to date a woman much younger than him. For another, our culture has increasingly pedestalized children; the idea that we are now going to do an aboutface and legalize child rape seems a huge stretch.

I also have to ask, if more females are abused as children, and being abused as a child directly leads to homosexuality and pedophilia, why are there more male pedophiles than female? Doesn't that one statistic blow the rest out of the water? (I'm not stating that there are no female pedophiles, just that more are male.)

Also, I have to wonder if so many different species of animals were sexually abused in prepubescence as to make them often display homosexual behaviors.

Homosexual behaviour has been observed in 1,500 animal species.

"We're talking about everything from mammals to crabs and worms. The actual number is of course much higher. Among some animals homosexual behaviour is rare, some having sex with the same gender only a part of their life, while other animals, such as the dwarf chimpanzee, homosexuality is practiced throughout their lives."

Animals that live a completely homosexual life can also be found. This occurs especially among birds that will pair with one partner for life, which is the case with geese and ducks. Four to five percent of the couples are homosexual. Single females will lay eggs in a homosexual pair's nest. It has been observed that the homosexual couple are often better at raising the young than heterosexual couples.

When you see a colony of black-headed gulls, you can be sure that almost every tenth pair is lesbian. The females have no problems with being impregnated, although, according to Petter Boeckman they cannot be defined as bisexual.

"If a female has sex with a male one time, but thousands of times with another female, is she bisexual or homosexual? This is the same way to have children is not unknown among homosexual people."

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

But nothing like this could ever be natural of course, or even mostly natural. Sure, abuse plays a part for some, just like if you are physically abused or live with alcoholism or a smoker, chances are higher that you'll display the same behaviors than those who weren't...but it's not an absolute.

Those are interesting articles, but they're basically just guessing as much as the studies they denounce. They're not proof or fact. Studying a couple thousand homosexuals and pedophiles does not prove anything even close to concrete.

[MasterOfPuppets]

[hicksfan]

Originally Posted by Vincent

Well, the reason I went with the older article was knowing that it would draw fire, it set the stage for where we are today - repeating the history of 40 years ago when academia was petitioning the APA to declassify homosexuality.

Interesting, huh?

I realize that drawing any parallel between homosexuality and pedophilia makes “modern” folk edgy. But there are common elements that need to be explored and addressed, and I submit that to not do so would qualify one for “flat Earth society” membership more so than raising the questions.

I started by asking essentially what age separates pedophilia from "mere" homosexuality. It bears noting that there is a distinction to be made between "heterosexual" pedophilia and "homosexual" pedophilia.

As one might expect, Mayo has extensive research that helps answer some of these questions. As it happens, there are indeed not "just pedophiles", but categories of pedophiles that cut across my questions. Interestingly "of adult male pedophiles, only 7% identified themselves as exclusively sexually attracted to children", indicating that the vast majority carried their "orientation" into the abuse of children. The research further indicated that there is male "heterosexual" pedophilia and male "homosexual" pedophilia. A particularly revealing statistic is that "the percentage of homosexual pedophiles ranges from 9% to 40%, which is approximately 4 to 20 times higher than the rate of adult men attracted to other adult men (using a prevalence rate of adult homosexuality of 2%-4%)". But you'll be relieved to know that the research "does not imply that homosexuals are more likely to molest children, just that a larger percentage of pedophiles are homosexual or bisexual in orientation to children." That's certainly good news for the homosexual community. Otherwise folks would think of them as perverts or something. Oh, and the research points out that "homosexual" pedophiles are nearly eight times more prolific than "heterosexual" pedophiles, but I doubt that that reflects on the homosexual community that much. Well, because there is absolutely no relationship whatsoever between homosexuality and pedophilia, and certainly anybody that thinks so must be a flat Earther or Creationist Right?

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com.../82/4/457.full

CATEGORIES OF PEDOPHILES

Pedophiles are subdivided into several classifications. One of the first distinctions made when classifying pedophiles is to determine whether they are “exclusively” attracted to children (exclusive pedophile) or attracted to adults as well as children (nonexclusive pedophile). In a study by Abel and Harlow15 of 2429 adult male pedophiles, only 7% identified themselves as exclusively sexually attracted to children, which confirms the general view that most pedophiles are part of the nonexclusive group.

Pedophiles are usually attracted to a particular age range and/or sex of child. Research categorizes male pedophiles by whether they are attracted to only male children (homosexual pedophilia), female children (heterosexual pedophilia), or children from both sexes (bisexual pedophilia).3,6,10,29 The percentage of homosexual pedophiles ranges from 9% to 40%, which is approximately 4 to 20 times higher than the rate of adult men attracted to other adult men (using a prevalence rate of adult homosexuality of 2%-4%).5,7,10,19,29,30 This finding does not imply that homosexuals are more likely to molest children, just that a larger percentage of pedophiles are homosexual or bisexual in orientation to children.19 Individuals attracted to females usually prefer children between the ages of 8 and 10 years.3,5,31 Individuals attracted to males usually prefer slightly older boys between the ages of 10 and 13 years.3,5 Heterosexual pedophiles, in self-report studies, have on average abused 5.2 children and committed an average of 34 sexual acts vs homosexual pedophiles who have on average abused 10.7 children and committed an average of 52 acts.15 Bisexual offenders have on average abused 27.3 children and committed more than 120 acts.15 A study by Abel et al32 of 377 nonincarcerated, non-incest-related pedophiles, whose legal situations had been resolved and who were surveyed using an anonymous self-report questionnaire, found that heterosexual pedophiles on average reported abusing 19.8 children and committing 23.2 acts, whereas homosexual pedophiles had abused 150.2 children and committed 281.7 acts. These studies confirm law enforcement reports about the serial nature of the crime, the large number of children abused by each pedophile, and the underreporting of assaults.1 Studies that used self-reports and polygraphs show that pedophiles currently in treatment underreport their current interest in children and past behaviors.33,34

If you follow the link for that article, you’ll see it was taken down. Must have ruffled some feathers. The study is available at cost to professionals at these sites…

http://pdn.sciencedirect.com/science...12937-main.pdf

http://www.mdconsult.com/das/article...ue#h1161074402

It took so long to remember just what happened.
I was so young and vestal then,
you know it hurt me,
but I'm breathing so I guess I'm still alive
even if signs seem to tell me otherwise.
I've got my hands bound,
my head down, my eyes closed,
and my throat wide open.

Do unto others what has been done to you

I'm treading water,
I need to sleep a while.
My lamb and martyr, you look so precious.
Won't you come a bit closer,
close enough so I can smell you.
I need you to feel this,
I can't stand to burn too long.
Released in this sodomy.
For one sweet moment I am whole.

Do unto you now what has been done to me.

You're breathing so I guess you're still alive
even if signs seem to tell me otherwise.
Won't you come just a bit closer,
close enough so I can smell you.
I need you to feel this.
I need this to make me whole.
There's release in this sodomy.
For I am your witness that
blood and flesh can be trusted.
And only this one holy medium brings me piece of mind.

Got your hands bound, your head down,
your eyes closed.
You look so precious now.

(Show me something
Thought I could make it end
Thought I could wash the stains away
Thought I could break the circle if I
Slipped right into your skin
So sweet was your surrender
We have become one
I have become my terror
And you my precious lamb and martyr.)

I have found some kind of temporary sanity in this
shit blood and cum on my hands.

I've come round full circle.
My lamb and martyr, this will be over soon.
You look so precious.

tool - prison sex
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

by and large pedophilia is learned behavior, you'll be hard-pressed to find many pedophiles that weren't victims when they were young. not all who are abused turned into pedophiles, but those that do become pedophiles were once victims. to me, that's one point you neglect to assert in your campaign against homosexuality. you immediately equate physical acts (whether sexual or abuse) with orientation. are those that use "prison sex" to establish hierarchy in prison homosexual? in all acts, consequences dictate the course of our actions. to me it's incorrect to label all of these acts simply as "homosexuality" and use that to dismiss categorically. the assertion that homosexuality begets pedophilia is a gross oversimplification of the overall situation. you use that to validate to yourself that homosexuality in itself is immoral. that supports that belief, right? that's the overall rub, isn't it? you don't have a true argument to what consenting adults can do with each other so you lump in with those that truly have moral issues with their actions. just like flat-earthers and creationists, you ignore several critical points to keep your stance intact.

if you have an argument as to why homosexuality amongst consenting adults is immoral, i'm all ears.

[hicksfan]

Originally Posted by Vincent

You may be too young to remember the campaign to normalize homosexuality. The campaign to normalize pedophilia is following the exact script. Why not? It worked. I think the window will be shorter this time, like 3-5 years. Watch for it.

jesus won't you ****ing whistle something but the past and done? there will be no normalization of physical abuse. i'll gladly come back in 5 years to revisit your assertion and claims.

[hicksfan]

Originally Posted by Vincent

My issues with homosexuality are manyfold, but they all descend from the lies that "support" its promotion. I have a low threshold of tolerance to bull#$%^.

Calling people that disagree with homosexuality "homophobes" is every bit as infantile as calling people that disagree with bho racists.

do you have any arguments that ring true as to why you should concern yourself with what consenting adults do amongst themselves? if you don't, then it's not infantile to assert your notions are bigoted, which you amusingly refer to as a "low threshold of tolerance to bullshit". you're a ****ing comic genius.

[hicksfan]

and moving forward, please start formulating arguments in your own words rather than the daisy-chain of cut and paste articles. i'd like to see the actual substance of thought process.

[tony hipchest]

geeze vincent... next thing we know, you will be telling us necrophilia, beastiality, sex with roadklill, and coprophagia is immoral.

i know its not immoral to go poop , but is it immoral to shove the same food up ones own rectum?

by these standards some may consider abstinence and celibacy immoral. it is certainly unnatural. even the bible directs us to be "fruitful" and multiply.

teh only difference is that the advocacy groups fro homosexuality and celibacy are actually relevant. i put the pedophilia advocacy right up there with the banana shover up assers, and skull****ers.