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An important history lesson for you TRUE Steelers fans!

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Old 05-18-2006, 06:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: A statistical examination.....

I dont know if I can pick exact numbers for receptions or yardage for Holmes - but I think that if alot of them past receivers played in next years offense with Ben at QB then they would be above the average for a 1st year Pittsburgh 1st round Wideout.

I do think that the Steelers will increase the throwing % next year for 3 pretty good reasons.

1. Ben R. - I have him down as the 2nd best QB in the NFL, as I have stated before, and not Peyton Manning. He is the guy that dragged his team through some real tough road games in the hottest competition of all - the post season.

Could Manning do this? The answer has to be no - he has lost alot of his big games, and alot of them with homefield advantage too.

2. Steelers WR's - Im going to include Heath Miller in this group. They will surely improve by some distance for next year - bearing in mind they will all have played an extra year in the NFL and in the Steeler system.
Steelers need a No.1 receiver - Holmes could be that guy.

The WR corps from last year was one of the weaker in the NFL, just imagine what Ben can do with another years learning, the confidence of winning the big one and an improved WR corps.

3. Lack of Bettis - When the Steelers wanted to shut a game down in the 2nd half - the ball inevitably ended up in Bettis's hands. Fast Willie wont be able to grind the 3-4 yd gains that Bettis was so expert at - there has to be huge doubts whether Staley can stay fit enough to take that kind of remorseless punishment.

NM
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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 05-18-2006, 06:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: A statistical examination.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinginthe past
I dont know if I can pick exact numbers for receptions or yardage for Holmes - but I think that if alot of them past receivers played in next years offense with Ben at QB then they would be above the average for a 1st year Pittsburgh 1st round Wideout.

I do think that the Steelers will increase the throwing % next year for 3 pretty good reasons.

1. Ben R. - I have him down as the 2nd best QB in the NFL, as I have stated before, and not Peyton Manning. He is the guy that dragged his team through some real tough road games in the hottest competition of all - the post season.

Could Manning do this? The answer has to be no - he has lost alot of his big games, and alot of them with homefield advantage too.

2. Steelers WR's - Im going to include Heath Miller in this group. They will surely improve by some distance for next year - bearing in mind they will all have played an extra year in the NFL and in the Steeler system.
Steelers need a No.1 receiver - Holmes could be that guy.

The WR corps from last year was one of the weaker in the NFL, just imagine what Ben can do with another years learning, the confidence of winning the big one and an improved WR corps.

3. Lack of Bettis - When the Steelers wanted to shut a game down in the 2nd half - the ball inevitably ended up in Bettis's hands. Fast Willie wont be able to grind the 3-4 yd gains that Bettis was so expert at - there has to be huge doubts whether Staley can stay fit enough to take that kind of remorseless punishment.

NM
holmes will be that guy. just not immediately. funny you mention that cause i just posted a really good article by john clayton on the exact subject. with bettis being gone, i am satisfied that duce and verron can do the grind it out role. verron averaged 4.7 yds a carry in that role last year in mop up duty when most teams were putting 9-10 men in the box. thats impressive. if that fails they still got the humean wrecking ball to give a shot.

steelers have been taking baby steps with bringing ben along. i dont see any big time changes but a 55%-45% run/pass ratio isnt out of the question. i still look for them to try and lead the league in time of possession to keep their defense fresh and aggressive.
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Old 05-18-2006, 07:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: A statistical examination.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
holmes will be that guy. just not immediately. funny you mention that cause i just posted a really good article by john clayton on the exact subject. with bettis being gone, i am satisfied that duce and verron can do the grind it out role. verron averaged 4.7 yds a carry in that role last year in mop up duty when most teams were putting 9-10 men in the box. thats impressive. if that fails they still got the humean wrecking ball to give a shot.

steelers have been taking baby steps with bringing ben along. i dont see any big time changes but a 55%-45% run/pass ratio isnt out of the question. i still look for them to try and lead the league in time of possession to keep their defense fresh and aggressive.
55/45 would certainly be a good target to aim for.

I dont think the problem in the past for the Steelers (in the playoffs) is that they have simply run too much - its that they were unwilling/unable to balance the attack a little.

You will know more about this than me, but it has seemed in past seasons that the Steelers have dominated on the ground during the regular season but then come the playoffs they have had the running game shut down and have resorted to pass-wacky tactics - im sure there have been some playoff losses where Kordell threw 40 passes.

Its all about options - if you can pass then it opens up the running game, and vice versa - although I certainly agree about running the ball to give the aggresive D a breather - its something we like in Patriotville aswell.

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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 05-18-2006, 08:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: A statistical examination.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinginthe past

I dont think the problem in the past for the Steelers (in the playoffs) is that they have simply run too much - its that they were unwilling/unable to balance the attack a little.
trying/or having to balance the attack a little is really what has cost them in the past

in 97 abandonning the running game and trying to get cute with the passing game is what hurt them. trying to incorporate a little more passing and ballance was what cost them a trip to the sb. jerome had a great year and was having a really good game. the ball was taken out of his hands at the most inopportune time. grind it out and doing it the way that had gotten them there was what was called for.

in 01 jerome was leading the league in rushing until he tore a hammy against the vikings. he tried to rush back against the sb defending champion ravens. a pain killing shot went awry and left his leg numb and he was a last minute scratch. the next week the injured bettis was still ineffective. (zeoroue was not the answere to a team that had adopted the steelers defensive format) despite 3 kordell int and 2 special team td's given up, the steelers were still right there.

in 04, again duce was on pace to lead the league in rushing. and again the steelers lost their #1 rusher. he was injured (by a sucker punch from the pats no less). jerome held ground but with a rookie qb, against a veteran savy defense and coaching staff, the pats were able to dictate what the steelers could do.

in 76, the greatest football team ever assembled, again missed another perfect sb opportunity when franco harris and r. blier were injured and unable to play.

knock the running philosophy of cowher all you want. it has been proven it doesnt work if you dont have the runners in place. carolina flopped w/o a runner last year. take away s. alexander and seattle dont make the sb. san diego without lt is a 4-12 team. pats dont win a 3rd bowl w/o dillon. the cheifs are a horrible team w/o priest or johnson. the cowboys dont do squat without emmitt smith being able to play in the playoffs. bills dont go to 4 sb's without thurman, and the rams never sniff a sb w/ an injured faulk.
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Old 05-18-2006, 08:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: A statistical examination.....

Cowher is old school, smashmouth in your face jam the football down their throats is old school. We will not immediately get away from that. As the years have gone by you can notice a slight change in Cowhers coaching style. Hes gone from a micromanager to trusting his asst coaches a little more. Big Ben is coming of age and we are starting to get more weapons in place for his arm and play action abilities. Us passing more and opening it up in the next few years wouldn't surprise me at all, we have the weapons to do it all and to keep other teams on their toes week in and week out. Here comes the left, here comes the left.......oh shit where did that right come from? Us winning XL wasn't just another Super Bowl win but in fact it was a wake up call to the rest of the league to be prepared for another Steeler dynasty that will be talked about for ages to come. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO!!!!!
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Old 05-18-2006, 09:03 PM   #16
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Default Re: A statistical examination.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIESELMAN
Cowher is old school, smashmouth in your face jam the football down their throats is old school. We will not immediately get away from that. As the years have gone by you can notice a slight change in Cowhers coaching style. Hes gone from a micromanager to trusting his asst coaches a little more. Big Ben is coming of age and we are starting to get more weapons in place for his arm and play action abilities. Us passing more and opening it up in the next few years wouldn't surprise me at all, we have the weapons to do it all and to keep other teams on their toes week in and week out. Here comes the left, here comes the left.......oh shit where did that right come from? Us winning XL wasn't just another Super Bowl win but in fact it was a wake up call to the rest of the league to be prepared for another Steeler dynasty that will be talked about for ages to come. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO!!!!!
if you look at what has made the patriots offensively successful during their 4 year sb run, its the capability to run either a 4 wr set, spread em out offense, or a power running game at will.

the steelers will now be at this point. the pats have found success adopting the steelers defensive philosophies, now the steelers will find success adopting some of the pats offensive philosophies with a greater capability to go deep at any given point. (without relying on trick or gadget plays to do so)
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Old 05-18-2006, 09:22 PM   #17
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Thumbs down Re: A statistical examination.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by clevestinks
Suit, if he puts up 50-800-5 in his rookie year, thats way more than EL
Randle El was one of the overratted Recivers we seem to get ever 5 years...El could never be number one...he struggles at number 2...
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Old 05-19-2006, 04:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: A statistical examination.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
trying/or having to balance the attack a little is really what has cost them in the past

in 97 abandonning the running game and trying to get cute with the passing game is what hurt them. trying to incorporate a little more passing and ballance was what cost them a trip to the sb. jerome had a great year and was having a really good game. the ball was taken out of his hands at the most inopportune time. grind it out and doing it the way that had gotten them there was what was called for.

in 01 jerome was leading the league in rushing until he tore a hammy against the vikings. he tried to rush back against the sb defending champion ravens. a pain killing shot went awry and left his leg numb and he was a last minute scratch. the next week the injured bettis was still ineffective. (zeoroue was not the answere to a team that had adopted the steelers defensive format) despite 3 kordell int and 2 special team td's given up, the steelers were still right there.

in 04, again duce was on pace to lead the league in rushing. and again the steelers lost their #1 rusher. he was injured (by a sucker punch from the pats no less). jerome held ground but with a rookie qb, against a veteran savy defense and coaching staff, the pats were able to dictate what the steelers could do.

in 76, the greatest football team ever assembled, again missed another perfect sb opportunity when franco harris and r. blier were injured and unable to play.

knock the running philosophy of cowher all you want. it has been proven it doesnt work if you dont have the runners in place. carolina flopped w/o a runner last year. take away s. alexander and seattle dont make the sb. san diego without lt is a 4-12 team. pats dont win a 3rd bowl w/o dillon. the cheifs are a horrible team w/o priest or johnson. the cowboys dont do squat without emmitt smith being able to play in the playoffs. bills dont go to 4 sb's without thurman, and the rams never sniff a sb w/ an injured faulk.
Thanks Tony,

Thats a pretty nic recap.

I would question whether we dont win a 3rd SB without Dillon though - the previous 2 SB wins we had Antowain Smith leading the rushing game and he barely rushed for a 1000 yeards them seasons and his avergage was 3.3 or somewhere close.

As a general rule a healthy running game certainly has to help you chnaces of winning the big one - its just that the Patriots had to substitute a short passing game to take its place in the previous years.

Oh, and I also think that San diego would be better than 4-12 if they had Michael Turner starting for LT - but thats an opinion thing.

NM
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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 05-19-2006, 04:26 AM   #19
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Default Re: A statistical examination.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
trying/or having to balance the attack a little is really what has cost them in the past

in 97 abandonning the running game and trying to get cute with the passing game is what hurt them. trying to incorporate a little more passing and ballance was what cost them a trip to the sb. jerome had a great year and was having a really good game. the ball was taken out of his hands at the most inopportune time. grind it out and doing it the way that had gotten them there was what was called for.

in 01 jerome was leading the league in rushing until he tore a hammy against the vikings. he tried to rush back against the sb defending champion ravens. a pain killing shot went awry and left his leg numb and he was a last minute scratch. the next week the injured bettis was still ineffective. (zeoroue was not the answere to a team that had adopted the steelers defensive format) despite 3 kordell int and 2 special team td's given up, the steelers were still right there.

in 04, again duce was on pace to lead the league in rushing. and again the steelers lost their #1 rusher. he was injured (by a sucker punch from the pats no less). jerome held ground but with a rookie qb, against a veteran savy defense and coaching staff, the pats were able to dictate what the steelers could do.

in 76, the greatest football team ever assembled, again missed another perfect sb opportunity when franco harris and r. blier were injured and unable to play.

knock the running philosophy of cowher all you want. it has been proven it doesnt work if you dont have the runners in place. carolina flopped w/o a runner last year. take away s. alexander and seattle dont make the sb. san diego without lt is a 4-12 team. pats dont win a 3rd bowl w/o dillon. the cheifs are a horrible team w/o priest or johnson. the cowboys dont do squat without emmitt smith being able to play in the playoffs. bills dont go to 4 sb's without thurman, and the rams never sniff a sb w/ an injured faulk.
Thanks Tony,

Thats a pretty nice recap.

I would question whether we dont win a 3rd SB without Dillon though - the previous 2 SB wins we had Antowain Smith leading the rushing game and he barely rushed for a 1000 yards them seasons and his avergage was 3.3 or somewhere close.

As a general rule a healthy running game certainly has to help you chances of winning the big one - its just that the Patriots had to substitute a short passing game to take its place in the previous years.

Oh, and I also think that San Diego would be better than 4-12 if they had Michael Turner starting for LT - but thats an opinion thing.

NM
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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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