Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2014 Goal: $450.00 - To Date: $450.00 (100.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Miscellaneous > Locker Room


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-02-2012, 04:15 AM   #131
ricardisimo
Administrator
 
ricardisimo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lalaland
Posts: 5,446
Gender: Male
Member Number: 15369
Thanks: 339
Thanked 902 Times in 434 Posts
Default Re: Shooting at Batman movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
As I have stated, what you, or I, or the courts, or anybody anywhere in the Republic has to say about the 2nd Amendment is moot. It says in plain English what the framers long deliberated - "shall not be infringed".

It is stupefying to me that people insist on searching for loopholes to the ONLY thing that protects their own liberty - testimony to the generations of minds that have been destroyed by public schools and "higher" "education".
You honestly believe that gun ownership is the only thing preserving our democracy, such as it is? What is occurring in these totalitarian states?
CountryLicensing of gun owners?Registration of firearms?Other RestrictionsHouseholds with firearms (%)Total Intentional Gun Death Rate per 100,000
Japan
Yes Yes Prohibits handguns with few exceptions 0.6 % 0.07
Singapore Yes Yes Most handguns and rifles prohibited 0.01% 0.24
U.K. Yes Yes Prohibits handguns 4.0 % 0.4
Netherlands Yes Yes 1.9 % 0.55
Spain
Yes Yes Some handguns and rifles are prohibited 13.1 % 0.74
Germany
Yes Yes 8.9 % 1.44
Italy Yes Yes N/A 2.27
Israel Yes Yes N/A 2.56
Australia
Yes Yes Banned semiautomatics unless good reason 16.0 % 2.94
Canada Yes All guns by 2003 Assault weapons and some handguns 26% 3.95
France Yes Yes, except sporting rifles 22.6 % 5.48
Switzerland Yes Yes 27.2 % 5.74 6.2
Finland Yes Yes 50 % 6.65
USA in some statesHandguns in some statesSome weapons in some states 41% 13.47

On the other side of this, I'd like you to look at these countries whose gun ownership is closest to ours (although, admittedly, no one comes close to us) and tell me the pattern you see here. This must be the delicious irony you were speaking of earlier:

Country Guns per 100 residents (2007) Rank (2007)
United States 88.8 1
Serbia 58.2 2
Yemen 54.8 3
Switzerland 45.7 4
Cyprus 36.4 5
Saudi Arabia 35 6
Iraq 34.2 7
You'll pardon me if I and
__________________
Why does God hate amputees?
ricardisimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 04:21 AM   #132
ricardisimo
Administrator
 
ricardisimo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lalaland
Posts: 5,446
Gender: Male
Member Number: 15369
Thanks: 339
Thanked 902 Times in 434 Posts
Default Re: Shooting at Batman movie

And I want to repost a sentiment I had from earlier which iPower (probably on purpose, of course) deleted: Guns are a military weapon, not a political tool. They accomplish nothing in the political realm, except perhaps to silence discourse by fear (as in, take a peek at the other countries with high guns-per-capita totals).
__________________
Why does God hate amputees?
ricardisimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:26 AM   #133
MACH1
Quest For Seven
Supporter
 
MACH1's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Potataho
Posts: 14,924
Member Number: 3236
Thanks: 2,104
Thanked 6,425 Times in 2,372 Posts
Default Re: Shooting at Batman movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
And I want to repost a sentiment I had from earlier which iPower (probably on purpose, of course) deleted: Guns are a military weapon, not a political tool. They accomplish nothing in the political realm, except perhaps to silence discourse by fear (as in, take a peek at the other countries with high guns-per-capita totals).
And thats a good thing?
It a lot easier to control and silence an unarmed population.

Again it just as easy to find stats to make any point.

Britain is a country with stronger gun control laws than the United States, and lower murder rates. But Mexico, Russia and Brazil are also countries with stronger gun control laws than the United States -- and their murder rates are much higher than ours. Israel and Switzerland have even higher rates of gun ownership than the United States, and much lower murder rates than ours.

Even the British example does not stand up very well under scrutiny. The murder rate in New York has been several times that in London for more than two centuries -- and, for most of that time, neither place had strong gun control laws. New York had strong gun control laws years before London did, but New York still had several times the murder rate of London

Meanwhile, murder rates in the United States declined during the same years when murder rates in Britain were rising, which were also years when Americans were buying millions more guns per year.

The real problem, both in discussions of mass shootings and in discussions of gun control, is that too many people are too committed to a vision to allow mere facts to interfere with their beliefs, and the sense of superiority that those beliefs give them.

Any discussion of facts is futile when directed at such people. All anyone can do is warn others about the propaganda.
http://townhall.com/columnists/thoma...nda/page/full/
__________________


ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
MACH1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:45 AM   #134
MACH1
Quest For Seven
Supporter
 
MACH1's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Potataho
Posts: 14,924
Member Number: 3236
Thanks: 2,104
Thanked 6,425 Times in 2,372 Posts
Default Re: Shooting at Batman movie

MAHATMA GANDHI, PEACEFUL REVOLUTIONARY
“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the
Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."

THE DALAI LAMA
“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back
with your own gun.”

JOHN F. KENNEDY, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take
arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of
their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that
freedom."
"By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia,' the 'security' of the nation, and the
right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms,' our founding fathers recognized the
essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the
fears of governmental tyranny, which gave rise to the Second Amendment, will ever
be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important
declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be
ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the Second
Amendment will always be important."
__________________


ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
MACH1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 11:39 AM   #135
Vincent
Team President
Supporter
 
Vincent's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: People's Republic of North Carolina
Posts: 2,485
Member Number: 10927
Thanks: 13
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: Shooting at Batman movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
You honestly believe that gun ownership is the only thing preserving our democracy, such as it is?
We're a Republic, Ric. We've been over this.

And no, I don't think gun ownership is the only thing preserving our Republic. The ballot is the first line of defense. The gun is the last resort. But take the gun away and there is nothing to defend the vote. Sort of like the old adage "If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel."

Conversely, "If the muslims put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence".
__________________

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln
Vincent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 11:48 AM   #136
Vincent
Team President
Supporter
 
Vincent's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: People's Republic of North Carolina
Posts: 2,485
Member Number: 10927
Thanks: 13
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: Shooting at Batman movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by MACH1 View Post
THE DALAI LAMA
“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
COMMON SENSE
"If someone repeatedly vows to annihilate you, it would be reasonable to separate them from their weapons."

Quote:
Originally Posted by MACH1 View Post
JOHN F. KENNEDY, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take
arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of
their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that
freedom."
"By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia,' the 'security' of the nation, and the
right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms,' our founding fathers recognized the
essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the
fears of governmental tyranny, which gave rise to the Second Amendment, will ever
be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important
declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be
ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the Second
Amendment will always be important."
That guy needs to be on the no-fly list. Whudda freekin loon!
__________________

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln
Vincent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 02:34 AM   #137
ricardisimo
Administrator
 
ricardisimo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lalaland
Posts: 5,446
Gender: Male
Member Number: 15369
Thanks: 339
Thanked 902 Times in 434 Posts
Default Re: Shooting at Batman movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by MACH1 View Post
And thats a good thing?
It a lot easier to control and silence an unarmed population.

Again it just as easy to find stats to make any point.

Britain is a country with stronger gun control laws than the United States, and lower murder rates. But Mexico, Russia and Brazil are also countries with stronger gun control laws than the United States -- and their murder rates are much higher than ours. Israel and Switzerland have even higher rates of gun ownership than the United States, and much lower murder rates than ours.

Even the British example does not stand up very well under scrutiny. The murder rate in New York has been several times that in London for more than two centuries -- and, for most of that time, neither place had strong gun control laws. New York had strong gun control laws years before London did, but New York still had several times the murder rate of London

Meanwhile, murder rates in the United States declined during the same years when murder rates in Britain were rising, which were also years when Americans were buying millions more guns per year.

The real problem, both in discussions of mass shootings and in discussions of gun control, is that too many people are too committed to a vision to allow mere facts to interfere with their beliefs, and the sense of superiority that those beliefs give them.

Any discussion of facts is futile when directed at such people. All anyone can do is warn others about the propaganda.
http://townhall.com/columnists/thoma...nda/page/full/
No, it's not a good thing. Guns silence debate. It doesn't matter if they're in the hands of the government or private citizens. They are anathema to a healthy political climate.

As far as people being too committed to an idea to notice facts, it would help if you weren't posting links from the ultra-right to support your claims... and an editorial, no less! I'm sure I could find some commentary from CommonDreams or some Episcopalian website to poo-poo guns just as easily. Instead, look at those lists of nations ranked by gun ownership, look at the nations ranked by gun homicides, look at the nations that regulate or ban guns and those who don't.

Look who our neighbors are on those lists and look who are neighbors are not. Then tell us what are mere ideas and what are facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
We're a Republic, Ric. We've been over this.

And no, I don't think gun ownership is the only thing preserving our Republic. The ballot is the first line of defense. The gun is the last resort. But take the gun away and there is nothing to defend the vote. Sort of like the old adage "If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel."

Conversely, "If the muslims put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence".
OK, so we're a republic, and not a democracy (although the ballot is the mark of a democracy, much like a constitution is the mark of a republic, so I'm not sure why you're zig-zagging here). Why is that pertinent? Demonstrably vibrant democratic republics around the world regulate gun ownership with gusto, while the countries that lean most heavily on firearms in their culture are us and all of those Muslim monarchies and dictatorships you so despise. Americans are more Muslim than they care to admit, evidently.

Which raises a thought that I've had for some time now, that you are to Muslims what the rabid homophobe is to gays: a closet case. Your conversion is imminent, no doubt.
__________________
Why does God hate amputees?
ricardisimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 10:37 AM   #138
Vincent
Team President
Supporter
 
Vincent's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: People's Republic of North Carolina
Posts: 2,485
Member Number: 10927
Thanks: 13
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: Shooting at Batman movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
OK, so we're a republic, and not a democracy (although the ballot is the mark of a democracy, much like a constitution is the mark of a republic, so I'm not sure why you're zig-zagging here). Why is that pertinent?
Don't know that it is or isn't. I generally reference that we're a representative republic anytime someone says we're a democracy. There is nothing at all "democratic" about our Republic except that we elect our representatives. They do our bidding in the state houses and congress. In fact, our state representatives select the electors that actually elect the president. The framers set the Republic up this way because they understood that democracy is mob rule, and that we wouldn't have survived long under mob rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
Which raises a thought that I've had for some time now, that you are to Muslims what the rabid homophobe is to gays: a closet case. Your conversion is imminent, no doubt.
Just to keep you up to date, the [slur] have followed the fanooks' lead and coined the term "islamophobe". If you follow their thinking, folks that take issue with islam are frightened by islam and thereby :"phobic". Its every bit as valid as "homophobes" being "afraid" of homos, if you will. And so, if I'm following you here, you're suggesting that as "homophobes" are frightened of homos and that they will themselves will become homos, that my destiny is to become a muzzie.

Thin.
__________________

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln

Last edited by ricardisimo; 08-06-2012 at 04:00 PM.
Vincent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 04:29 AM   #139
ricardisimo
Administrator
 
ricardisimo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lalaland
Posts: 5,446
Gender: Male
Member Number: 15369
Thanks: 339
Thanked 902 Times in 434 Posts
Default Re: Shooting at Batman movie

No. Thin is judging and damning a billion people because the propaganda machine tells you to do so, and especially when you're judging them for characteristics found much more readily within your own.

I would like to ask you again to refer to people respectfully. Please edit out your little derogatory terms for Muslims, or I'll be tempted to do it for you. There is no hate speech allowed on this site, as per the CoC, the founder and the new owner... and me, if I have anything to say about it.

You know full well how I feel about believers, including Christians. And yet you will never read me referring to them as anything but "Christians".
__________________
Why does God hate amputees?
ricardisimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 08:23 AM   #140
Vincent
Team President
Supporter
 
Vincent's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: People's Republic of North Carolina
Posts: 2,485
Member Number: 10927
Thanks: 13
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: Shooting at Batman movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
No. Thin is judging and damning a billion people because the propaganda machine tells you to do so, and especially when you're judging them for characteristics found much more readily within your own.
Who judged and damned a billion people? Or one, for that matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
I would like to ask you again to refer to people respectfully. Please edit out your little derogatory terms for Muslims, or I'll be tempted to do it for you. There is no hate speech allowed on this site, as per the CoC, the founder and the new owner... and me, if I have anything to say about it.
You give some people a title and they go all Politburo on you. Is the pressure of office wearing on you Ric? And you people went on about the previous SF administration being nazis.

Define "hate speech" in terms other than things you disagree with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
You know full well how I feel about believers, including Christians. And yet you will never read me referring to them as anything but "Christians".
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.
__________________

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln
Vincent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts