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Old 08-06-2012, 12:26 PM   #21
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Default Re: Sikhs express shock after shootings at Wisconsin temple

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You posted a conspiracy theory and said you couldn't dismiss it entirely. That's all I did, too. Just as much proof for mine as yours. Then Vinny jumped into the deep end.
Let me post what happened here in the order it happened...

Me: But I do find it highly suspicious that this is being treated as a lone gunman, domestic terrorism situation, when there are witness reports claiming different.

You: Are you a conspiracy believer? While it's possible Wade had others with him who have gotten away at this point, ballistics will tell if more than one gun was used. What isn't possible is that this is a government run hit team. (Never stated that as a possibility in my initial post there, you jumped to that conclusion on your own)

Me: Haven't come to any definite conclusions here. Never stated that's what happened, just providing links to what some people have said that contradict what is being reported as a lone gunman attack. Not going to state that I believe anything definitive, but I'm certainly not going to rule out the possibility, especially in the context of what is going on with the US and UN right now.

You: After all, you are suggesting that it is possible for the FBI, full of people who have served throughout many different administrations, to be in on killing innocent people and shooting a cop. (Again, didn't do that, you made this up yourself)

Me: You aren't even reading my posts apparently, just injecting your own interpretations.

I'm not suggesting anything, other than the official story of one shooter may not be correct, and posted corresponding links and videos. You took that to mean I'm a conspiracy nut who thinks the gov't is behind it.

You: It could be a Mormon hit squad. Not saying I fully believe that but I'm not ready to dismiss the possibility.

Me: Again, I'm not saying whether or not I think it was some kind of gov't operation...I was posting on the fact that there are differing reports of how many shooters there were.

You: You posted a conspiracy theory and said you couldn't dismiss it entirely.

Me: *Facepalming myself*
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:29 PM   #22
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Default Re: Sikhs express shock after shootings at Wisconsin temple

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Now that that's out of the way, Wally posted a thought over at SX that I didn't even think of and that's the fact that these two shootings (Colorado and Wisconsin) are being presented in very different manners. Holmes was never referred to as a domestic terrorist (at least not in anything that I've read), but Page was immediately labeled one. This goes back to my mentioning of war vets being listed as possible domestic terrorists. Mainstream media wasted no time in magnifying that. Just kind of odd if you ask me.
Yeah, I'm not suggesting anything, I just find it odd how the two stories were presented. In the Colorado shooting, everyone waited until the details came out (well, except for those who instantly and incorrectly labeled Holmes as a tea-party member). But there was no mention of domestic terrorism. The Wisconsin shooting was labeled domestic terrorism right from the beginning. By way of comparison, it took the government and media forever to label the Fort Hood shooting as an act of terrorism (which it was). I don't know what all that means ... I just find it odd.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: Sikhs express shock after shootings at Wisconsin temple

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Yeah, I'm not suggesting anything, I just find it odd how the two stories were presented. In the Colorado shooting, everyone waited until the details came out (well, except for those who instantly and incorrectly labeled Holmes as a tea-party member). But there was no mention of domestic terrorism. The Wisconsin shooting was labeled domestic terrorism right from the beginning. By way of comparison, it took the government and media forever to label the Fort Hood shooting as an act of terrorism (which it was). I don't know what all that means ... I just find it odd.
That's how I took your comment there as well. This was labeled domestic terrorism even before a description of the shooter came out, let alone a name and the fact that he had tattoos. I just thought that was odd as well.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:33 PM   #24
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Default Re: Sikhs express shock after shootings at Wisconsin temple

domestic terrorism - terrorism practiced in your own country against your own people; "the 1995 bombing of a federal building in Oklahoma City was an instance of domestic terrorism"
act of terrorism, terrorism, terrorist act - the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear


Can you not see how the Sikh shooting could fit this definition while the Batman shooting could not?
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Sikhs express shock after shootings at Wisconsin temple

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Now that that's out of the way, Wally posted a thought over at SX that I didn't even think of and that's the fact that these two shootings (Colorado and Wisconsin) are being presented in very different manners. Holmes was never referred to as a domestic terrorist (at least not in anything that I've read), but Page was immediately labeled one. This goes back to my mentioning of war vets being listed as possible domestic terrorists. Mainstream media wasted no time in magnifying that. Just kind of odd if you ask me.
If one is "domestic terrorism" then the others are as well. If they "aren't" then neither is Wisconsin.

If you're going to label a broad segment of society "domestic terrorists", you better have some "domestic terrorism" for the media and pols to jaw about.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: Sikhs express shock after shootings at Wisconsin temple

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If one is "domestic terrorism" then the others are as well. If they "aren't" then neither is Wisconsin.

If you're going to label a broad segment of society "domestic terrorists", you better have some "domestic terrorism" for the media and pols to jaw about.

Only if you don't know that "terrorist" and "killer" aren't synonyms
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:40 PM   #27
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Default Re: Sikhs express shock after shootings at Wisconsin temple

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domestic terrorism - terrorism practiced in your own country against your own people; "the 1995 bombing of a federal building in Oklahoma City was an instance of domestic terrorism"
act of terrorism, terrorism, terrorist act - the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear


Can you not see how the Sikh shooting could fit this definition while the Batman shooting could not?

Ummm...I guess, I'm just saying that I too think it was odd that it was called domestic terrorism before any name, description, or motive was released.

And are you saying there's no way that someone could shoot up a movie theater as a way to attain goals that are ideological in nature (how broad stretching is that term?) by instilling fear? Kind of seems like it could to me, you could apply that to almost anything.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:42 PM   #28
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Default Re: Sikhs express shock after shootings at Wisconsin temple

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If one is "domestic terrorism" then the others are as well. If they "aren't" then neither is Wisconsin.

If you're going to label a broad segment of society "domestic terrorists", you better have some "domestic terrorism" for the media and pols to jaw about.
The apocalypse is surely upon us...we agree on something.

In the article I posted in the thread about scouts, they are training these kids to not only be militarily ready for border jumpers and well known images of terrorists, but for domestic terrorists, such as Iraq war vets, as well.

Train 'em young.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:43 PM   #29
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Default Re: Sikhs express shock after shootings at Wisconsin temple

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Can you not see how the Sikh shooting could fit this definition while the Batman shooting could not?
No, not immediately after they happened. What I saw in both cases was men who went into buildings and killed people. In one shooting, they spent days gathering information about the shooter before coming to any conclusions. In the other, it was immediately labeled domestic terrorism.

Don't you first have to gather information about the shooter before coming to conclusions?
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:46 PM   #30
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Default Re: Sikhs express shock after shootings at Wisconsin temple

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Ummm...I guess, I'm just saying that I too think it was odd that it was called domestic terrorism before any name, description, or motive was released.

And are you saying there's no way that someone could shoot up a movie theater as a way to attain goals that are ideological in nature (how broad stretching is that term?) by instilling fear? Kind of seems like it could to me, you could apply that to almost anything.

Any act of violence or threat of violence can be terrorism. terrorism is a word denoting the motive. Yes the news jumped on the word quickly. They do that for a reason - sensationalism = ratings.

the Joker guy (following Dan's lead on naming him) was only trying to be a famous villain. He's the real version of Mr. Glass. If he had a political motive he did a piss poor job of getting the word out.

It could also be that the Sikh shooter didn't want to make a point but just hated different people enough to simply want to kill as many as he could. That isn't terrorism either. It's just evil.
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