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Old 09-09-2012, 08:47 AM   #31
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Default Re: 19 people shot Thursday afternoon, Friday morning

We watched Safe last night. Lost track of the body count. We really need to get the guns off the streets. It isn't even safe to go into a restaurant.

Good family film - 2 thumbs up.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:31 AM   #32
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Default Re: 19 people shot Thursday afternoon, Friday morning

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They actually are difficult though, to obtain legally in Illinois. Why do you think legal gun owners make such a fuss there? And in D.C.? They are literally a couple of the hardest places to own a handgun, let alone get a carry permit. Maybe you missed the part where you have to be licensed by the state police first, and then in most cases your county police. Next, what they don't tell you on wikipedia, is that when they say you have to take the classes, you can only take them at certain licensed facilities. Guess what? There sometimes aren't any within city limits, you can literally have to drive for an hour or two, depending on where you live. Why does that matter? Because in Chicago and D.C, before getting a permit to own, let alone carry a firearm, you have to be able to transport a firearm to one of those facilities to take a test...you can only do that if you have a permit. See the problem here? Also, in some areas, you have to be someone who is legally permitted to own a firearm to take the classes. Quite the conundrum, right? Sounds retarded, even for someone who is against guns. But that's why it's so hard to own guns in those areas. They put those silly little loopholes in there.

It is possible, I honestly can't remember the way this lady explained it...but it involved quite a bit of paperwork and extra money and time. She said most people just give up within the first year of trying. You'd think they'd be the safest places on earth though, with how hard it is to legally obtain a gun.
It is safe, for the criminals.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:01 PM   #33
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Default Re: 19 people shot Thursday afternoon, Friday morning

Look, you're not allowed to bring up "safe". People with guns are statistically far less safe than people without. It's inconvenient for the pro-gun argument, but you're going to have to find other reasons to own a gun. Because it's fun. Because it gives you an erection. Because the UN is going to invade us militarily. Because you're a collector. Whatever. Those are all valid in their own weird ways, but the safety argument just doesn't hold any water at all.

Taking tests, paying triple-digit fees, combating loopholes... I'm sorry but these are not insurmountable obstacles to owning a gun. Are you people of the impression that it should be comparable to obtaining a driver's license? It's a lethal, offensive weapon, not defensive. It makes the owner (and everyone around the owner) less safe, not more. Unlike a car, it has no other function except to kill. And there is the whole point about what it does to civil society, to political debate, etc.

Why should anyone be able to obtain one at all, and why more easily?
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:41 AM   #34
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Default Re: 19 people shot Thursday afternoon, Friday morning

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Look, you're not allowed to bring up "safe". People with guns are statistically far less safe than people without. It's inconvenient for the pro-gun argument, but you're going to have to find other reasons to own a gun. Because it's fun. Because it gives you an erection. Because the UN is going to invade us militarily. Because you're a collector. Whatever. Those are all valid in their own weird ways, but the safety argument just doesn't hold any water at all.

Taking tests, paying triple-digit fees, combating loopholes... I'm sorry but these are not insurmountable obstacles to owning a gun. Are you people of the impression that it should be comparable to obtaining a driver's license? It's a lethal, offensive weapon, not defensive. It makes the owner (and everyone around the owner) less safe, not more. Unlike a car, it has no other function except to kill. And there is the whole point about what it does to civil society, to political debate, etc.

Why should anyone be able to obtain one at all, and why more easily?
What about the statitstic of number of crimes stopped and number of lives saved due to legal gun owners? Why is that always conveniently ignored?

And no, it shouldn't be as easy to legally obtain a gun as a drivers license...but I was just giving you reasons as to why it's near impossible to legally own a handgun in Chicago, since you seemed to be under a different impression.

I don't know what utopia you live in now where just making guns completely illegal would work. It would only make it so those who pursue legal gun ownership couldn't get one. This isn't the UK, where gun crime was almost non existant before they enacted their first real gun laws. We already have massive gun crime...it's just not coming from legal owners. So you have to think of a realistic solution to what the actual problem is first.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:31 AM   #35
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Default Re: 19 people shot Thursday afternoon, Friday morning

There is no realistic solution to gun crime in this country. None. We're pretty much ****ed no matter what. Our culture has been purposely cultivated to extol and revel in guns. You cannot watch 30 minutes of television (PBS aside) without seeing a half-dozen guns wielded by some drama protagonist. My eight-year-old adores guns (although admittedly his shoot lasers and cosmic rays.) There's no getting away from it.

There are solutions to crime, but not one of them will be implemented in any meaningful way during our lifetimes in this country. Jobs, drug rehab, after-school programs, stopping the Drug War... all of the things that are getting cut or moving in completely the opposite direction right now. I don't need to lecture you about any of these things, Mom, but you know and I know that those are the things that stop bullets in mid-air.

My main point is that putting more guns out there always only worsens the situation. As far as gun owners having prevented crimes... BS. I love the 2.5 million number that gets tossed around, but everyone knows that's nonsense. Let's call it realistically a couple thousand, and I think that is extremely generous. It doesn't even balance out all of the murders by cops, in my mind.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:46 AM   #36
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Default Re: 19 people shot Thursday afternoon, Friday morning

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Our culture has been purposely cultivated to extol and revel in guns.
I'm struck by the irony that your ilk would remain in a land that you find so abhorrent. But your musings betray your agenda.

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