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Old 09-19-2012, 10:37 PM   #51
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Default Re: Time to stick a fork in Polamalu and Harrison

Both guys are phenomenal but to call Troy average is silly. Guys one of a kind and every NFL player and pundit I have ever heard speak say the same thing. Those are the people who's opinion really count. They've played the game and know how truly special he is. Either way we need them both. Hope they don't play till after the bye!
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:45 PM   #52
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Default Re: Time to stick a fork in Polamalu and Harrison

Troy in his prime, and I believe that was in 05 as evidenced by his incredible play during and through the playoffs...maybe a couple years after as well, was simply incredible. He was a game changer. IMHO is loss of speed either due to aging or injuries has magnified his short comings i.e poor angles, risk taking, subpar in coverage. He is not even a top 10 safety in my book if you are talking this year and going forward. I have him after these guys:

Goldson
Earl Thomas
Ed Reed
Adrian Wilson
Charles Woodson
Weddel
Rolle
Griffin
Whitner
Eric Berry

there are degrees of separation but I really think Troy's play has fallen off a cliff. I have never seen a more lost player than how he looked in that SB vs. GB. It was an embarassing performance which I mainly attribute to his health. From late that season till today he looks completely different. Sure, like a heavyweight boxer he still has a killer right cross and can deliver the occasional nice play but he looks past his prime to me. Now Harrison, when he is on the field still looks as good as they come. He tried to play through injuries and you could tell he just wasn't healthy but once he is I anticipate his play to be stellar to be followed by a pretty nice FA contract, just not from us.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:45 PM   #53
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Default Re: Time to stick a fork in Polamalu and Harrison

"troys loss of speed and taking poor angles"

when troy is healthy, the ONLY time i see him miss is when he is rushing in so fast like a torpedo, he cannot change direction quick enough to account for another players juke. everyone forgets that the other players get paid and got moves too.

many times troy going TOO FAST is his worst enemy. call it over persuit.

i dont understand theis other bullshit people are talking.

those who say troy is done never saw rod woodson play with the raiders. the OP shoulda stuck a fork in this thread before they clicked "submit".
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:48 PM   #54
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Default Re: Time to stick a fork in Polamalu and Harrison

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfan23 View Post
Troy in his prime, and I believe that was in 05 as evidenced by his incredible play during and through the playoffs...maybe a couple years after as well, was simply incredible. He was a game changer. IMHO is loss of speed either due to aging or injuries has magnified his short comings i.e poor angles, risk taking, subpar in coverage. He is not even a top 10 safety in my book if you are talking this year and going forward. I have him after these guys:

Goldson
Earl Thomas
Ed Reed
Adrian Wilson
Charles Woodson
Weddel
Rolle
Griffin
Whitner
Eric Berry

there are degrees of separation but I really think Troy's play has fallen off a cliff. I have never seen a more lost player than how he looked in that SB vs. GB. It was an embarassing performance which I mainly attribute to his health. From late that season till today he looks completely different. Sure, like a heavyweight boxer he still has a killer right cross and can deliver the occasional nice play but he looks past his prime to me. Now Harrison, when he is on the field still looks as good as they come. He tried to play through injuries and you could tell he just wasn't healthy but once he is I anticipate his play to be stellar to be followed by a pretty nice FA contract, just not from us.
He played with an injured Achilles in the Super Bowl and apparently played hurt in Denver. I thought he had a pretty damn good 2011. He's never going to be the same as when he was in his mid 20s. He's still among the very best. His injuries are frustrating, but he is a fairly undersized guy who plays reckless and with the physicality of a linebacker. Injuries are inevitable. It's the price he pays. I think you are really undervaluing him by putting him below all those safeties.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:54 PM   #55
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Default Re: Time to stick a fork in Polamalu and Harrison

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Originally Posted by teegre View Post
That is what I love about him... exactly that... "blowing stuff up."



I will agree to that. That said, I think that him moving around gets into QBs' heads. They "have" to locate him... which makes them hesitate, even for a second... which disrupts timing routes. Ergo, he "blows up" secondary play by being "out there... somewhere."



Q: Are you saying that you'd take these guys over Troy now?... or, Troy in his prime?

In his prime, I wouldn't even take Ed Reed over Troy. But, currently... well... Eric Berry is the only one who I know for sure that I'd take over Troy.
I'd take them "now".

But don't forget, Troy "In his prime" was a very new thing in football.
He was looked upon in a way that someone might look at a being who just emerged from an alien spaceship.
He didn't "look" like a football player and he didn't talk like one either.
He was different.
Because he was so different, he became the "Shiny Object" that attracted everyone's attention and I think a lot of people were awed by him (like seeing the Grand Canyon for the first time) and I think some of that influenced their assessment of him as a player. In other words, he was a unique person so he must be a special player too.

Don't get me wrong -- Troy in his prime WAS a special player but I never saw him as exceptional. Very good, gifted, things like that but not exceptional (mainly for the reasons I've mentioned).

I think "overrated" would be the word I'd choose.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:06 AM   #56
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Default Re: Time to stick a fork in Polamalu and Harrison

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But don't forget, Troy "In his prime" was a very new thing in football.

He was looked upon in a way that someone might look at a being who just emerged from an alien spaceship.

He didn't "look" like a football player and he didn't talk like one either.

Troy in his prime WAS a special player but I never saw him as exceptional. Very good, gifted, things like that but not exceptional (mainly for the reasons I've mentioned).

I think "overrated" would be the word I'd choose.
very interesting take.

"underrated" is the word i would chose. sure he is appreciated in his time but i think his great play is often overshadowed by his "uniqueness".

there are very few defensive players in recent times that players and offensive coaches admit having to alter entire gameplans for and struggle to account for said player on every single down.

lawrence taylor, ronnie lott, reggie white, deion sanders come to mind.

coaches have to gameplan around troy just like those listed above. a healthy troy impacts the game before he even steps on the field.

troy has been arguably the best player on a defense that has been to 3 SB (won 2) since he was drafted.

ed reed cant say that and the ravens went to a SB w/o reed and t. dilfer as QB.

Colts Bob Sanders was considered a great safety. he was injury prone. adrian wilson was considered one of the leagues best, but you never hear his name. no teams are scared of either of these guys.

I think troy is a cut above....
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:30 AM   #57
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Default Re: Time to stick a fork in Polamalu and Harrison

Steelers Plan To Hold Dinged Starters Out Until Week 5

September 20
by The Sports Xchange

The Steelers have a plan when to play all of their injured players and it involves their early bye in the fourth week of the season.

The plan is that none of their questionable players will play until they return for the fifth week, when they resume with a game against Philadelphia Oct. 7 at home. That is when James Harrison, Troy Polamalu, Rashard Mendenhall and one or two others who have been out are most likely to return.

Harrison and Polamalu missed another practice on Thursday and will not play in Oakland Sunday. Harrison has yet to play in a game, either regular season or preseason. This will be the second game that Polamalu misses. Harrison had his knee scoped Aug. 15 and it has not responded as they had hoped. Polamalu came out of the first game with a strained calf.

Mendenhall has gone through full practices the past three weeks as he comes back from a January 1 torn ACL. He has done well and he started to get some contact in practice Wednesday in pads.

Mendenhall promises that when he returns to play he will be the same runner he was before the injury.

"Just this whole process, rehabbing, going through it and taking it day by day," Mendenhall reasoned. "I'm preparing to get back to that level and nothing else. That's what my focus is."

The Steelers also could get their top backup inside linebacker, Stevenson Sylvester, back after the bye. He tore his MCL in practice before the second preseason game and has not played.

The Steelers lost rookie linebacker Sean Spence for the season to a torn ACL in the preseason. That's been an inordinate amount of injuries for the linebackers already in 2012.

"It's the game of football," Sylvester said. "The linebacker position is hard, it's hard to get away from the injuries. This year we got it a little bit but we're making a comeback."

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/ar...eek_5/11768758
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:15 AM   #58
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Default Re: Time to stick a fork in Polamalu and Harrison

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfan23 View Post
Troy in his prime, and I believe that was in 05 as evidenced by his incredible play during and through the playoffs...maybe a couple years after as well, was simply incredible. He was a game changer. IMHO is loss of speed either due to aging or injuries has magnified his short comings i.e poor angles, risk taking, subpar in coverage. He is not even a top 10 safety in my book if you are talking this year and going forward. I have him after these guys:

Goldson
Earl Thomas
Ed Reed
Adrian Wilson
Charles Woodson
Weddel
Rolle
Griffin
Whitner
Eric Berry

there are degrees of separation but I really think Troy's play has fallen off a cliff. I have never seen a more lost player than how he looked in that SB vs. GB. It was an embarassing performance which I mainly attribute to his health. From late that season till today he looks completely different. Sure, like a heavyweight boxer he still has a killer right cross and can deliver the occasional nice play but he looks past his prime to me. Now Harrison, when he is on the field still looks as good as they come. He tried to play through injuries and you could tell he just wasn't healthy but once he is I anticipate his play to be stellar to be followed by a pretty nice FA contract, just not from us.
Tell me if I am understanding your points correctly.  In all seriousness, this is what I am reading/this is what is coming across... and I want to see if this what you actually intended to say.  [I don't want to put words in your mouth.]  

1. Troy had two good seasons: 04 & 05.  

2.  Troy had bad years in: 06, 07, & 08.  

3.  Alge Crumpler falling on his knee in 09, and his hamstring (or was it a knee) in 10 had little to do with the downswing in his play, because he was already declining (see point #2).  

4.  His only real asset was his speed, and now that he's slower, he is basically ineffective.  

Again, were these your points?

If so... if all if that is true, I think that your list would actually be even LONGER... no?  

[My list: Eric Berry, Ed Reed, Troy... everyone else.]  
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:22 AM   #59
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Default Re: Time to stick a fork in Polamalu and Harrison

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I'd take them "now".

But don't forget, Troy "In his prime" was a very new thing in football.
He was looked upon in a way that someone might look at a being who just emerged from an alien spaceship.
He didn't "look" like a football player and he didn't talk like one either.
He was different.
Because he was so different, he became the "Shiny Object" that attracted everyone's attention and I think a lot of people were awed by him (like seeing the Grand Canyon for the first time) and I think some of that influenced their assessment of him as a player. In other words, he was a unique person so he must be a special player too.

Don't get me wrong -- Troy in his prime WAS a special player but I never saw him as exceptional. Very good, gifted, things like that but not exceptional (mainly for the reasons I've mentioned).

I think "overrated" would be the word I'd choose.

We'll skip over the fact that I disagree: I think he was 100% exceptional... one of the best I've ever seen.  I know you'll never convince me of otherwise, and I'm sure I'll never convince you, either.  

But, I'd like to continue with a... 

Counter-point:  
Could one not say that his "shininess" actually made him exceptional?  QBs "had" to look at him... and account for him... as did O-linemen (whose job it was to locate him on every play).  He affected the game pre-snap more than any other player that I've seen, except for: Lawrence Taylor, Derrick Thomas, and Greg Lloyd.  
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:39 AM   #60
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Default Re: Time to stick a fork in Polamalu and Harrison

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We'll skip over the fact that I disagree: I think he was 100% exceptional... one of the best I've ever seen.  I know you'll never convince me of otherwise, and I'm sure I'll never convince you, either.  

But, I'd like to continue with a... 

Counter-point:  
Could one not say that his "shininess" actually made him exceptional?  QBs "had" to look at him... and account for him... as did O-linemen (whose job it was to locate him on every play).  He affected the game pre-snap more than any other player that I've seen, except for: Lawrence Taylor, Derrick Thomas, and Greg Lloyd.  
Once again, I'm not saying that Troy has not done some special things or that he hasn't had an impact on the way the game is played.

All I'm saying is that -- In My Opinion -- he hasn't done anything SO special that he deserves a spot on Mount Rushmore.

The thing I don't get about Steeler fans in general (and I've been one for 40 years) is the reverence displayed for three people: Chuck Noll, Dick LeBeau and now Troy Polamalu.
I don't understand why they seem to be regarded as some sort of Supernatural beings.

Yes, they all deserve accolades and they all deserve to be in the Hall of Fame -- but none deserve sainthood. They're just people who are good at what they do but none are "gifts" to football or to humanity and the idea of putting them on pedestals drives me crazy. It's as if this game wouldn't exist if the three of them didn't.

You know, there's a fine line between "fan" and "Fanatic".
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