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Old 09-27-2012, 08:30 AM   #21
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Default Re: “When Obama is in the White House for a second term I'll take it all off!”

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And correct me if I'm wrong, but you voted for Obama last election, right?

One argument I'm getting insanely tired of hearing, is that if I vote for Johnson, I'd be giving my vote to Obama. And people tell me this in passing conversations like they know who I voted for last election lol (it wasn't Obama, but half the time I don't even need to give any indication of that before they rant).

I know quite a few Democrats personally who would never dream of voting for Romney, and voted with their party in electing Obama. And would have done the same this year if it wasn't for Paul and Johnson.

Libertarians aren't going to win this fight, but if enough of us use our votes HOW WE SEE FIT, we can get Libertarian candidates into the debates next cycle and get more of a national following. That's how I see it.

I'd also like to hear Tony's thoughts on Johnson, as he's probably the only person I know who lives in NM and has had first hand experience with his politics.
It won't work. I've had this argument about the Green Party too. Third parties can't start with a presidential candidate. First of all, if Johnson won he could do nothing in office. He wouldn't have a party to fight for any legislation. He wouldn't have backing for judicial appointments, etc..

If you want a third party to rise you need congressmen and state legislatures first. You need ground troops in the states. You need the organization. It's easier to organize to win a small election. Gain a foothold in a state. Get a Governor next. Then hope that state thrives so you can sell it nationally.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:37 AM   #22
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Default Re: “When Obama is in the White House for a second term I'll take it all off!”

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It won't work. I've had this argument about the Green Party too. Third parties can't start with a presidential candidate. First of all, if Johnson won he could do nothing in office. He wouldn't have a party to fight for any legislation. He wouldn't have backing for judicial appointments, etc..

If you want a third party to rise you need congressmen and state legislatures first.
Well yes, agreed on that...but first you have to get the name and policies out there on a national level or else people won't even look twice at a Libertarian on the ballot for Senate, House or local elections. Movements generally do have to start small though, and many are trying to promote their third party candidates on a local level. The names just need more national exposure.

Johnson wasn't a ballot Libertarian when he was Governor, but he held libertarian principles while in office, and was successful...and now is trying to sell that nationally.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:40 AM   #23
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Default Re: “When Obama is in the White House for a second term I'll take it all off!”

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Well yes, agreed on that...but first you have to get the name and policies out there on a national level or else people won't even look twice at a Libertarian on the ballot for Senate, House or local elections.

But then one of the parties will steal the popular ideas. If that's the purpose, to push the GOP that direction, so be it. But if the purpose is to compete, you need to hold offices.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:47 AM   #24
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Default Re: “When Obama is in the White House for a second term I'll take it all off!”

Here's why most repubs wont switch:

“Government exists to protect civil liberties and constitutional rights – not to pick and choose among those Americans who should have those rights. Denying same-sex couples the right to marry under the law is government-sanctioned discrimination.”

Gary Johnson


and, from their platform:



1.4 Abortion

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:07 PM   #25
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Default Re: “When Obama is in the White House for a second term I'll take it all off!”

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Cool, Obama gets the over 50 vote. It's in the bag.
Guess again.



Oops.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: “When Obama is in the White House for a second term I'll take it all off!”

Gallup
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Obama
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:40 PM   #27
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Default Re: “When Obama is in the White House for a second term I'll take it all off!”

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I'd also like to hear Tony's thoughts on Johnson, as he's probably the only person I know who lives in NM and has had first hand experience with his politics.
i voted for him twice as republican governor and many people (including myself) were bummed there were term limits and he couldnt run again. i am more than pleased to be voting for him again this election.

when i first voted for him i barely knew nothing about him. alot of people didnt as he was new to the political arena. my car broke down late on a friday evening in the middle of nowhere on the way home from albuquerque. lucky i was near a small town and able to pull off the highway to a convinience store.

i waited till i saw a construction worker in his work truck. i dont know shit about cars and saw he had a ton of tools. i asked him if he could check it out and help me. he said he would but i would owe him a favor. the problem was relatively minor and he was able to get me back on the road. very grateful i asked what i owed him.

he said "you have to vote for my boss for the governor of new mexico. he owns this construction company" as he pointed to his truck. "he is a grat boss, a great family man, and a great person. you will not regret your vote".

as a registered democrat, i might of just voted for the incumbent, but my word is my word. plus i was really impressed with the man who would do me such a huge favor and all he wanted in return was to help his business man boss.

johnson turned his handyman side jobs in college into one of the largest construction companies in new mexico. this man revered his boss like they were a small business with 10 employees.

i may not agree'd every bit with his republican platform, but he wasnt your typical republican. i guess he's kind of seen as a little radical. he is very socially liberal which is important to me. the biggest thing is he was a great people person. he was in touch with the state he was governing and the problems it faced.

he was the type of leader who even if you didnt agree with 100% you could get behind them and feel comfortable giving your support.

heres a nice synopsis from wiki-

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In an interview in Reason magazine in January 2001, Johnson's accomplishments in office were described as follows: "no tax increases in six years, a major road building program, shifting Medicaid to managed care, constructing two new private prisons, canning 1,200 state employees, and vetoing a record number of bills."[23] Andrew Sullivan quoted a claim that Johnson "is highly regarded in the state for his outstanding leadership during two terms as governor. He slashed the size of state government during his term and left the state with a large budget surplus."[36] According to one New Mexico paper, "Johnson left the state fiscally solid," and was "arguably the most popular governor of the decade . . . leaving the state with a $1 billion budget surplus."[37] The Washington Times has reported that when Johnson left office, "the size of state government had been substantially reduced and New Mexico was enjoying a large budget surplus."[25] According to a profile of Johnson in the National Review, "During his tenure, he vetoed more bills than the other 49 governors combined—750 in total, one third of which had been introduced by Republican legislators. Johnson also used his line-item-veto power thousands of times. He credits his heavy veto pen for eliminating New Mexico's budget deficit and cutting the growth rate of New Mexico's government in half."[38] Johnson has "said his numerous vetoes, only two of which were overridden, stemmed from his philosophy of looking at all things for their cost–benefit ratio and his axe fell on Republicans as well as Democrats."[20] Johnson was term limited and could not run for a third consecutive term as governor in 2002.[39] In the 2008 presidential election campaign, Johnson endorsed Ron Paul for the Republican nomination.[40] Johnson serves on the Advisory Council of Students for Sensible Drug Policy,[41] a student nonprofit organization that believes that the war on drugs needs to be reevaluated. As of April 2011[update], he serves on the board of directors of Students For Liberty, a nonprofit libertarian organization.[42]
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:16 PM   #28
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Default Re: “When Obama is in the White House for a second term I'll take it all off!”

Thanks Tony...good to hear it from someone who's seen his policies in action first hand. I've only ever heard good things about him (unless it's some gibberishy rant from a far right conservative about pot smoking hippies, gays or abortions). I had never really heard much about him though until it was clear that Paul wasn't even going to get a moment at the RNC.

I actually agree with him on most issues more than I do with Paul (mostly in the social issues, and a bit in foreign policy).

Excellent story about his employees too. I've heard about his start up business, and how he basically entered politics as a nobody, and was told he didn't stand a chance, especially in a democratic state.

He's the kind of candidate, that if the GOP wasn't so fervent about their archaic stances on social issues, would have absolutely crushed Obama in an election. He's the type of guy I actually get excited to vote for.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:27 PM   #29
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Default Re: “When Obama is in the White House for a second term I'll take it all off!”

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Thanks Tony...good to hear it from someone who's seen his policies in action first hand. I've only ever heard good things about him (unless it's some gibberishy rant from a far right conservative about pot smoking hippies, gays or abortions). I had never really heard much about him though until it was clear that Paul wasn't even going to get a moment at the RNC.

I actually agree with him on most issues more than I do with Paul (mostly in the social issues, and a bit in foreign policy).

Excellent story about his employees too. I've heard about his start up business, and how he basically entered politics as a nobody, and was told he didn't stand a chance, especially in a democratic state.

He's the kind of candidate, that if the GOP wasn't so fervent about their archaic stances on social issues, would have absolutely crushed Obama in an election. He's the type of guy I actually get excited to vote for.
this may be sad, and some will just say i am biassed, but i truly believe that since clinton (with the exception of dole and possibly gore) that both gay johnson and his NM gov successor bill richardson have been the best and most qualified presidential candidates. both boasted huge popularity and proved to be able to govern from the middle.

although NM is known as democratic, people have no problem voting someone like johnson in. Pete dominici was revered as a (R) senator who served for 30 years and always got my vote. not because im republican but because he was damn good at his job, smart as hell, and well respected in washington. he represented new mexicans the way anyone would want to be represented.

the difference bwtween gore defeating bush in 2000 was 5000 votes. some states you just know how theyre going to vote one way or another based on history and demographics. in NM you usually never know. the most reasonable candidate (on the state and national level).

make no mistake, one cannot use NM politics as a stepping stone. its pretty much a road to nowhere. our best politicians are typically dedicated to public service w/o false pretenses or ulterior motives or they are voted out regardless of party affiliation.

IMO for johnson to make it even this far on the national stage says alot about him.
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