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Old 10-01-2012, 02:46 PM   #21
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Default Re: Personnel for a 4-3?

Duly noted tony hipchest..

We can all debate what they might or should do (to switch, not to switch, use both) but the only thing is certain we're going to do what ever Keith Butler wants to do when he takes over.

Anyone have any clue what he's going to favor as far as scheme?
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: Personnel for a 4-3?

In today's passing league, you need four pass rushers, not three guys standing up playing gap control.

To wit, put Woodley, Ta'amu, Hood, and Heyward on the DL and turn them loose like rabid dogs.

Our read/react 3-4 is going the way of the dodo bird. It's too easy for OL to legally chop our guys, and we get no QB pressure.

How many shreddings do we have to watch before something is done?
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:55 PM   #23
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Default Re: Personnel for a 4-3?

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worilds was a defensive end in college considered to be TOO SMALL to make the transition to DE in the pros. just like porter, just like haggans, gildon, hell, even lamaar woodley was considered to small and slow to transition well.
.
Think you're dead wrong about Woodley. Would be a great DE in a 4-3.

If he's too slow to do that, what's he doing in pass coverage all the time? How is he able to rush the passer from essentially the same spot?
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: Personnel for a 4-3?

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Duly noted tony hipchest..

We can all debate what they might or should do (to switch, not to switch, use both) but the only thing is certain we're going to do what ever Keith Butler wants to do when he takes over.

Anyone have any clue what he's going to favor as far as scheme?
Is it a given that Butler is taking over?
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:00 PM   #25
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Default Re: Personnel for a 4-3?

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Is it a given that Butler is taking over?
I'm pretty sure it's in his contract that he'd be the next D-coordinator. He was going to the Colts- (The Colts wanted him) but the Steelers were able to retain him on a promise that he'd take over after Lebeau.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:49 PM   #26
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Default Re: Personnel for a 4-3?

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Think you're dead wrong about Woodley. Would be a great DE in a 4-3.

If he's too slow to do that, what's he doing in pass coverage all the time? How is he able to rush the passer from essentially the same spot?

im passing up the scouts analysis. take it up with them. http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...lamarr-woodley

LOLB LaMarr Woodley
Pittsburgh Steelers
Height: 6-1 Weight: 265 Speed: 4.74

Notes: Stood out at Michigan (2003-06), where he started 33-of-49 career games 15 at right defensive end, 18 at rush linebacker and totaled 177 tackles, 52 tackles for loss and 25 sacks with five batted passes and 10 forced fumbles. Took home the Lombardi and Hendricks Awards as a senior when he was the Big Ten's Defensive Player of the Year. Was selected in the second round (46th overall) of the '07 draft. Has started 44-of-57 games played at left outside linebacker in the pros, totaling 180 tackles and 37 sacks with 11 batted passes, three interceptions (one TD), seven forced fumbles and two fumble return TDs. Missed three games in '07 with a hamstring injury that derailed his rookie season and one in '08 (calf), when he was one of the NFL's most improved players. Is currently in the last year of his rookie contract.

Positives: Very thickly built with a strong base and natural leverage to get underneath blockers' pads. Possesses excellent hand strength to control blockers and long arms to keep them off his frame. Stout run defender rag-dolls tight ends, leverages the edge and constricts running lanes. Forceful tackler. Understands how to set up pass-rush moves and takes good pursuit angles. Keeps his feet running while working hand-rush moves has a long second step and can trim the corner quickly. Very good balance is seldom on the ground. Times up blitzes nicely.

Negatives: Lacks prototypical height for a rush linebacker. Has an inconsistent get-off and lacks elite closing burst. Is not an overly creative pass rusher and can get hung up on the double-team. Not loose-hipped to flip in coverage and carry tight ends down the field. Can be exposed in man coverage struggles with his back to the ball. Coverage instincts are average (although they have improved and he returned an interception for a TD vs. Cincinnati in Week 14). Rounds out of his breaks in zone coverage and loses some ground in transition.

Summary: An extremely strong, instinctive leverage rusher who saw limited action as a rookie in 2007, but broke out in his sophomore season, when he replaced Clark Haggins in the lineup, and became the first player ever to notch double-digit sacks in every (three) postseason contest on the Steelers' Super Bowl run. Is very effective on stunts and frees up James Harrison to make plays. Can be mismatched in coverage but brings great value defending the run and leveraging the edge, and stands as the Steelers' top priority before he hits free agency this coming offseason.



6'2" is still 6'2" no matter how you slice it.

just because he does in fact drop into a ZONE on pass defense, lets not make it like he is covering mike wallace in the slot, playing man-to-man, bump and run.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:37 AM   #27
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Default Re: Personnel for a 4-3?

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is this a rhetorical question?

our former OC is their HC. our former secondary coach is their DC. our former CB is now their secondary coach and our latest CB to leave is now their starting CB.

up until game one of this season, their starting OLB's were our 05 SB starters.

i dont even watch all their games though, let alone rewatch or study their game film.

there are some differences in personnel though. kerry rhodes and adrian wilson havent missed a start. their #1 pick from last year patrick peterson is about as dynamic as they come. they definitely have some studs playing in their front 7.



can you name a single team that has four 300+ lb guys starting on the DL? are you suggesting the way every other team in the NFL has been running it for years is wrong, and that your way could be very effective?

you do know that a majority of our OLB's were former DE's in college, right?

teh transition you suggest just isnt that easy. i wish people would quit making line up changes on paper and thinking its as simple as baseball.
The question is not rhetorical at all, you seem to know what you are talking about and I was curious whether the scheme is played exactly the same as ours. Just because Horton learned from Lebeau and has Willy playing CB doesn't mean he runs the D in the exact same fashion as we do. Although that is the most likely scenario.

I realize that switching to a 4-3 is not optimal or practical for that matter, but it is the bye week and news is slow. Why not find some way to talk about something Steelers related. I don't see why some conjecture on the topic irritates you so much.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:29 AM   #28
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Default Re: Personnel for a 4-3?

I think personnel is less an issue with switching to a 4-3, than one simple, but HUGE stumbling block-- have they practiced a 4-3 at all? Little if any at all. That's not our scheme.

That sort of change in philosophy does not happen overnight. Few teams have been able to make a smooth transition with a whole offseason to work with. Watching the Colts' version of the 3-4 is entertaining at best this year (the really interesting part is that Arians is now the top dog over there)-- but it sure isn't stopping much.

I think the only major reason you could make to install a 4-3 right now is a lack of depth at LB. Then we only have to worry about fielding 3 LBers as opposed to our normal 4. Also, it removes the burden of pass rushing from the LBers and gives it largely to the DEs. While Hamp and Kiesel have been getting shredded this season, we are still better off at Dline right now with Ziggy, Mclendon, Hood, Ta'amu (in a pinch) than we are with Chris Carter and Worilds providing our non- pass rush.
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