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Old 10-20-2012, 03:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'

The Steelers 2008 defense was questionably one of the greatest defenses of all time. Statistically in the top defensive categories among all defenses ever. In that defense you could expect someone to make a big play to finish out the game, this years version I'm not so sure about.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'

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Fact remains that the Steelers made the Super Bowl only in years they did not need to deal with Brady in the playoffs
True, this does bother me but it does not mean we were overrated. IMO the 2008 defense would have beat Brady in the season and playoffs, but there's no realistic way of ever knowing that. Our record against the Pats irritates the hell out of me. But Brady is one of the best QB's ever plus he's had a great O line nearly his entire career, so the fact that he beats us more often then not does not mean that we were overrated. Not to mention he gets "a little" help from the refs.

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In their Super Bowl runs in 2008 and 2010 they only played 2 top tier QBs - Warner in 2008 and Rodgers in 2010
True again, but how many of them could they have faced? They played 3 playoff games including the SB in both 2008 and 2010, that's 6 games. Warner and Rodgers were both great QB's at the time, and Phillip Rivers was a beast in 2008, check the numbers. We did pretty well beating him also in the divisional round. And although they are not elite, Flacco and Palmer aren't exactly bottom of the barrel. Point is not that many teams have elite QB's.

I'm pretty surprised about how many are forgetting how great we were. 2008, as mentioned already, was one of, if not the best defense ever to play the game. How the f*** could they be overrated? I understand we suck right now, period, and I think the stats hid a terrible defense last year, but lets not try to undo what was done because of that. 2010 was a great defense and 2008 was as good as it gets. Sure not every year was great, and I'm not that optimistic about the next year or two, but watching that 2008 defense was a privilege and that defense being overrated should be an insult to Steeler fans.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'

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The type of stats that the author is using points out how the bed was shat in 2009, 2011, and this year. Nearly all the examples given were from those years. So while it's true that the team was not good in 2009 or 2011, that doesn't mean the defense has been overrated since 2007. I assure you that the 2010 defense, and especially the 2008 defense, was not overrated.

As for LeBeau, it's the same question that everyone asks of all the greats: "was it them or there players". The question is asked about the Pats w/ Brady and Bellicheck all the time. A great coach can do a lot but if there is a huge lack of talent on the field then the team will likely still struggle, and if a talented team is not coached properly and not disciplined then they will struggle too.
I think it's just as much about "right place, right time" as it is about coaching and talent.

My personal favorite Steeler Defense in the post-Noll era would be the early 90's teams under Dom Capers and my second favorite would be the late 2000's teams under LeBeau.

But would either coach have been as successful if it weren't for the personnel they had to work with?

Capers had Kirkland, Lloyd, Lake, Woodson, Perry and then later Greene, so it could be argued that Capers would have had a great defense even if his play-calling was mediocre. As for LeBeau, I think his biggest achievement was his "Zone Blitz" which was revolutionary at the time but just as with Capers, you have to wonder how much of his success had to do with great talent versus great planning.

And what about when we didn't even have a Defensive Coordinator?

After Haslett left, Bill Cowher was running the defense himself for three years and we had some solid seasons without a DC at all.

Belichick is another story altogether and I've always said that if our coaching staff studied what he does, we'd have far fewer problems overall. Belichick does a few things that other coaches don't seem to do one of which is preparing his 2nd and 3rd string players as if they were starting every game and another is detailing a specific game plan to each team he faces and not relying on "what's been working" or worse yet - on reputation.

I think my biggest problem with LeBeau and coaches who are either from his era or who follow his style is that they seem to come from a school where intimidation and brute force was the name of the game and guys like that are falling behind in today's game -- especially since many rules have been changed to discourage hard, injury-causing hits. Back in LeBeau's day, as long as you could hit hard enough to lay someone out, you really didn't need a whole lot in the way of game-planning or technical savvy. If a receiver came across the middle, you just made sure that you hit him as hard as you could so that he'd be looking over his shoulder instead of looking for the ball.

But today, with all the rules protecting receivers and QB's, it's all about finesse and tactical prowess and I don't think it's easy for someone who has spent his whole life teaching "hitting" and preaching intimidation to suddenly change gears and start treating the game as if it were being played on a chess board instead of a football field.

The Steelers are one of the few teams (if not the only team) that still carries a reputation for defensive punishment despite the fact that the teams which created that reputation are decades in the past. I sometimes wonder if the F.O and even the coaches realize that Lambert or Lloyd are not going to be running out of the tunnel anytime soon and that the game has changed quite a bit from the days when defenses were measured by how many times a game was stopped to bring a stretcher onto the field for one of their "victims"?
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'

Great Defenses.

1994. Did everything right.
2004. Carried the Steelers to 15-1.
2005. Played their best when we really needed them to.
2008. Carried the Steelers to XLIII.

'Fool's Gold' Defenses.

2001. Vulnerable to the Pass.
2007. Invented the art of the 2nd Half collapse.
2009. Mastered the art of the 2nd Half collapse.
2010. Could stop the run better than everyone, mediocre through the air.
2011. Tebow'd. Nuff Said.
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'

Some of you people can only be explained by serious head injuries. The defense had been the whole entire team for five years. Most of the time the offense wasn't even a neutral, it actually put the other team in scoring position with a turnover or losing so much yardage that the punter couldn't even make it to the first down marker, then the defense would have to come out and push the other team out of their red zone, or force a turnover, only to have the offense go three and out again, on some retarded 3 yard draw on 3rd and 25, or empty set on 3rd and 3.
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'

Our defense is being overhyped? Is Ike Taylor talking again?
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'

During Lebeau's Early years in his second stint in Pittsburgh, his Defenses were pretty good. 2004-2008 were mostly solid years.

From the onset of 2009, this is where the Defense developed a nasty habit of collapsing down the stretch. The first signs came in 2007, but then it was treated as an aberration then because of 2008's fantastic performance.

From 2009 to the present, the "Great" Defenses of ours have made mediocre Quarterbacks look amazing. The 2008 was great, but the 2010 and 2011 teams definitely were overrated.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:35 AM   #18
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Default Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'

You people are all insane, driven into some cannibalistic furor because of a bad start to the year. While it's true that stats can lie, the longer you compile them the less room for error there is. So after Lebeau's first few games you could make these sorts of arguments. But after 8 straight seasons these polemics are meaningless.

He's a great coach with great players, and those players (in particular Troy) credit him with making them what they are. This whole "paper defense" thing is getting old. I swear, if our D doesn't pitch a no-hitter week-in and week-out you're all ready to put a gun in your mouth.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:17 AM   #19
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Default Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'

Bottom line is its time to put a 'hat on a hat", hit hard and play football, this is the NFL teams will score points no matter what quarter it is. I personally am sick of hearing the "old, slow, has been approach" fact of the matter is cut down the penalties and play smart football, the game against Tenessee wouldn't have been a game at all if Ike stopped his B.S., also quit playing down to your opponent the Steelers beat two fair teams but lose two to rather s****y teams because they played at the Raiders and Titans level.
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:14 AM   #20
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Default Re: Don't believe hype with Steelers' 'D'

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He's a great coach with great players, and those players (in particular Troy) credit him with making them what they are
Was. Now that that half the great players are gone, the other half are over the hill and/or injured, the defense doesn't look so good.

That 2008 defense had Smith, Hampton, Keisel, Harrison, Woodley, Farrior, Timmons, Polamalu, Clark, and Taylor all playing at high levels.

This one doesn't, and yet we play the same schemes as if they'll magically get better.

This team doesn't have 2-gap 3-4 talent anymore, but it still plays a 2-gap 3-4 system. I don't see anything improving until one of those two things changes.
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