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Old 11-24-2012, 08:35 PM   #31
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Default Re: Key Things to Take Note of at 6-4

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Originally Posted by jiminpa View Post
I don't agree that Tomlin is top 3. I don't think he is all that good at all. He would have kept Arians, and eventually after years of failure, had to be publicly sent a message, and finally overridden. He has not addressed our horrible special teams in 6 years, (maybe he isn't given the choice though). He makes just plain stupid game day decisions, on par for his responsibilities as Arians was on offense.

I am also not a big fan of Mike Wallace this year. I had hopes when he came back and made some tough catches over the middle, but now he's not even catching a lot of the easy ones, and I'm not convinced he's as fast as he used to be either, although he looked it against the Ravens. I thought at the time that giving Brown the big money was the right decision. He has earned it, and Sanders makes things happen too. The two of them on the field together are hard to cover. Heath is Heath. Ben has stepped up his game and attitude this year too. I like it. If we can get everyone healthy and in rhythm watch out.
Agree with both. Tomlin is not a good coach IMO. I don't hold him responsible for the defense because I'm not sure he's given much control over it, but as mentioned, we'd still have Arians if it wasn't for Rooney. He makes bad game decisions as mentioned, and the one that hurts the most are the most obvious. Dwyer is the RB on our team who can run the ball. Rainey is the guy who can take it to the house on PR's and KR's. Yet Rainey returns only some of the kicks and our $8 mil WR returns our punts. All while Dwyer watches Mendenhall get accused of "dancing with the stars" by Chris Collinsworth. Punting to a guy who averages 40 yards a punt return is not a good idea when your kicking from your own goal line either.

As for Wallace, what is he doing for us? He drops it, he fumbles, he doesn't get open on short routes or when Ben is under pressure, so what is there to like? He's a bad ass deep guy, but we don't use him much for that, and he struggles with the rest. He's a good #2 and a great distraction, but he's not worth what he's asking for.

I agree with pretty much everything else. Defense is kicking ass and the team is pretty good all around. Injuries are the only thing that can hold us back.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:56 PM   #32
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Default Re: Key Things to Take Note of at 6-4

Key Things to Take Note of at 6-5

I was reading the comments in the Week 12 game thread, and I was just confused. I was dumbfounded that these were the same people commenting in this thread saying the things you guys were. I mean, I've grown accustomed to the Fire Tomlin! comments, but the amount of negativity over a week 12 loss was a little bit ridiculous.

Ben Roethlisberger

Let's start with the most obvious one: we need Ben back. And by need, I don't mean 'hey, it'd be nice to have him back' it's more like 'fuck me do we need Ben back.' He's the captain and leader of this team, but more importantly, he's the franchise quarterback. Without him, the offense falls apart. The Steelers live and die with Ben at the helm - but for us as Steelers fans to panic when he's not playing is the absolute stupidest thing I've ever heard. Which leads me to ...

Why Are We Panicking?

We lost with our third string quarterback. This is a guy that isn't even suppose to dress, let alone take any snaps in practice and more importantly - take game snaps. He's the third string quarterback for a reason - he isn't very good. Despite this, I see comments like 'HOLY SHIT BATCH SUCKS' .. Yet, there were threads asking for him to start over Leftwich. Batch isn't very good and that became blatantly obvious today, but he's a third string - he isn't supposed to play.

However, I'm still seeing comments saying "we're done. our seasons over." No, and it's not even close to being over. We're in the 6th seed right now despite the Bengals' win. We gave the Ravens a run for their money and, despite 7 turnovers, made Cleveland sweat. This is a team built on resilience and are going to come out swinging against the Ravens in M&T, hopefully with Ben at the helm.

There's still a lot of football to be played. We're 6-5. We're not cozy by any means, but if we string a couple of wins together we'd be set. Keep in mind, this is a weak and watered down AFC that will probably allow an 8-8 team into the playoffs. We won't be 8-8 by the end of the season. If Ben comes back, we're looking at running the table with this team. That being said, we need a run game.

We Don't Have a Number One Back on Our Roster


We just don't. We have a 6th round guy who our fanbase seems to love, despite being ineffective for most of the game and can't string together snaps to save his life. Then, we have "Redzone" Redman who is playing outside the Redzone which is a mistake. Finally, we have a fan favorite (kidding) in Mendenhall who is under performing this year and will probably be gone at the end of the season. What does this mean? 2013 is a deep class for a running back.

Dwyer isn't capable of being a number one back despite what a lot of you will say. He doesn't have the stamina or speed to be a legitimate threat in the NFL. Once the defense closes the middle, Dwyer becomes useless. He's great for short yardage, but he's not a number one back and it's really not even close. He's leading me to believe that he plays more consistently like the Dwyer we saw in the first four games, and his two 100 yard games were anomalies.

What does this mean? We have to draft one, or acquire one in free agency. There's guys like Kenjon Barner and Knile Davis who will be available in the third round and beyond, and we have to take a chance on one of these guys. They've shown more and are elite prospects in a very deep RB class. Knile Davis was a surefire top 15 pick prior to this season, but his injuries and weak OLine have severely damaged his stock. This is something we have to pounce on.

How Can We Blame Mike Tomlin?


Mike didn't turn it over 7 times. In fact, he tried his absolute best to limit the turnovers. Mendenhall fumbled, he sat. Then, Redman came in and fumbled and rode the pine. Everyone turned to Dwyer, and he fumbled and eventually sat. Finally, Rainey fumbled and was only kept in the game because we didn't have another back to turn to. How can this possibly be pinned on Mike Tomlin?

He's coaching a team missing 4 Pro Bowlers, one of which is the franchise quarterback. Despite this fact, he got his team prepared and gave a 7-2 Ravens team a run for their money, and a kickoff return let them win. Then, he turns to his third string quarterback and almost wins against Cleveland. Say what you want about Cleveland, but winning without 4 Pro Bowlers and 2 starting offensive linemen - in Cleveland - would have been impressive. It also would have been overlooked by many of you.

How can we possibly pin any of this on Tomlin? His defense played well and the offense didn't - an offense without Roethlisberger. The standard is the standard, but expecting Charlie to play even 1/10th of the way Ben does is unrealistic. He's a hell'uva coach, and one of the best in the NFL.

Mike Wallace

I was out driving after the game and saw a car accident which I solely blame on Mike Wallace. Pinning the loss on Mike Wallace is almost as ridiculous as saying that - which a lot of you were keen on doing. Sure, he caused an interception, but all 4 running backs fumbled, even your beloved Jonathan Dwyer. Then, Batch threw and absolutely atrocious ball that was somewhat in the vicinity of Wallace and he gets blamed for not fighting the corner off it. Do you guys see how ridiculous that sounds? I mean, how many different ways can we scapegoat Mike Wallace and not recognize the problem is not having Ben out there throwing to him. I understand it's easier to put a name and a face to our problems, but Mike Wallace isn't it.

We Have an Elite Defense

How many other defenses would have been able to hold a team to 20 points after giving it away 7 times? I don't care who you're playing, that's an impressive stat. What makes it more impressive is we had two turnovers in our red zone.

The defense shut down that passing attack for most of the game, even when they were constantly gassed because the turnovers on offense. They're resilient and kept bailing the offense out by shutting down the Cleveland offense.

A guy we've been waiting to see come alive all season finally did. James Harrison played like the James Harrison of 5 years ago, and absolutely embarrassed that Cleveland offensive line.

Overall We Still Have a Great Team


This team is still great. The way the defense is playing, all we need is Big Ben back and this team will get rolling. This team is finally starting to get healthy, and when they do, look out. Until then, let's chill with all the negativity. I understand frustration, but frustration only goes so far. The comments I saw were of a fanbase that was giving up - not feeling poorly after losing to a team we should have embarrassed.

This team has the potential to be a serious contender, all we need is 7 under center.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:14 PM   #33
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Default Re: Key Things to Take Note of at 6-4

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Originally Posted by SteelersCanada View Post
There's guys like Kenjon Barner and Knile Davis who will be available in the third round and beyond, and we have to take a chance on one of these guys. They've shown more and are elite prospects in a very deep RB class. Knile Davis was a surefire top 15 pick prior to this season, but his injuries and weak OLine have severely damaged his stock. This is something we have to pounce on.


As a guy who has watched all season, you are dead on about Davis. He will be a steal.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: Key Things to Take Note of at 6-4

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Originally Posted by SteelersCanada View Post
Key Things to Take Note of at 6-5

I was reading the comments in the Week 12 game thread, and I was just confused. I was dumbfounded that these were the same people commenting in this thread saying the things you guys were. I mean, I've grown accustomed to the Fire Tomlin! comments, but the amount of negativity over a week 12 loss was a little bit ridiculous.

Ben Roethlisberger

Let's start with the most obvious one: we need Ben back. And by need, I don't mean 'hey, it'd be nice to have him back' it's more like 'fuck me do we need Ben back.' He's the captain and leader of this team, but more importantly, he's the franchise quarterback. Without him, the offense falls apart. The Steelers live and die with Ben at the helm - but for us as Steelers fans to panic when he's not playing is the absolute stupidest thing I've ever heard. Which leads me to ...

Why Are We Panicking?

We lost with our third string quarterback. This is a guy that isn't even suppose to dress, let alone take any snaps in practice and more importantly - take game snaps. He's the third string quarterback for a reason - he isn't very good. Despite this, I see comments like 'HOLY SHIT BATCH SUCKS' .. Yet, there were threads asking for him to start over Leftwich. Batch isn't very good and that became blatantly obvious today, but he's a third string - he isn't supposed to play.

However, I'm still seeing comments saying "we're done. our seasons over." No, and it's not even close to being over. We're in the 6th seed right now despite the Bengals' win. We gave the Ravens a run for their money and, despite 7 turnovers, made Cleveland sweat. This is a team built on resilience and are going to come out swinging against the Ravens in M&T, hopefully with Ben at the helm.

There's still a lot of football to be played. We're 6-5. We're not cozy by any means, but if we string a couple of wins together we'd be set. Keep in mind, this is a weak and watered down AFC that will probably allow an 8-8 team into the playoffs. We won't be 8-8 by the end of the season. If Ben comes back, we're looking at running the table with this team. That being said, we need a run game.

We Don't Have a Number One Back on Our Roster


We just don't. We have a 6th round guy who our fanbase seems to love, despite being ineffective for most of the game and can't string together snaps to save his life. Then, we have "Redzone" Redman who is playing outside the Redzone which is a mistake. Finally, we have a fan favorite (kidding) in Mendenhall who is under performing this year and will probably be gone at the end of the season. What does this mean? 2013 is a deep class for a running back.

Dwyer isn't capable of being a number one back despite what a lot of you will say. He doesn't have the stamina or speed to be a legitimate threat in the NFL. Once the defense closes the middle, Dwyer becomes useless. He's great for short yardage, but he's not a number one back and it's really not even close. He's leading me to believe that he plays more consistently like the Dwyer we saw in the first four games, and his two 100 yard games were anomalies.

What does this mean? We have to draft one, or acquire one in free agency. There's guys like Kenjon Barner and Knile Davis who will be available in the third round and beyond, and we have to take a chance on one of these guys. They've shown more and are elite prospects in a very deep RB class. Knile Davis was a surefire top 15 pick prior to this season, but his injuries and weak OLine have severely damaged his stock. This is something we have to pounce on.

How Can We Blame Mike Tomlin?


Mike didn't turn it over 7 times. In fact, he tried his absolute best to limit the turnovers. Mendenhall fumbled, he sat. Then, Redman came in and fumbled and rode the pine. Everyone turned to Dwyer, and he fumbled and eventually sat. Finally, Rainey fumbled and was only kept in the game because we didn't have another back to turn to. How can this possibly be pinned on Mike Tomlin?

He's coaching a team missing 4 Pro Bowlers, one of which is the franchise quarterback. Despite this fact, he got his team prepared and gave a 7-2 Ravens team a run for their money, and a kickoff return let them win. Then, he turns to his third string quarterback and almost wins against Cleveland. Say what you want about Cleveland, but winning without 4 Pro Bowlers and 2 starting offensive linemen - in Cleveland - would have been impressive. It also would have been overlooked by many of you.

How can we possibly pin any of this on Tomlin? His defense played well and the offense didn't - an offense without Roethlisberger. The standard is the standard, but expecting Charlie to play even 1/10th of the way Ben does is unrealistic. He's a hell'uva coach, and one of the best in the NFL.

Mike Wallace

I was out driving after the game and saw a car accident which I solely blame on Mike Wallace. Pinning the loss on Mike Wallace is almost as ridiculous as saying that - which a lot of you were keen on doing. Sure, he caused an interception, but all 4 running backs fumbled, even your beloved Jonathan Dwyer. Then, Batch threw and absolutely atrocious ball that was somewhat in the vicinity of Wallace and he gets blamed for not fighting the corner off it. Do you guys see how ridiculous that sounds? I mean, how many different ways can we scapegoat Mike Wallace and not recognize the problem is not having Ben out there throwing to him. I understand it's easier to put a name and a face to our problems, but Mike Wallace isn't it.

We Have an Elite Defense

How many other defenses would have been able to hold a team to 20 points after giving it away 7 times? I don't care who you're playing, that's an impressive stat. What makes it more impressive is we had two turnovers in our red zone.

The defense shut down that passing attack for most of the game, even when they were constantly gassed because the turnovers on offense. They're resilient and kept bailing the offense out by shutting down the Cleveland offense.

A guy we've been waiting to see come alive all season finally did. James Harrison played like the James Harrison of 5 years ago, and absolutely embarrassed that Cleveland offensive line.

Overall We Still Have a Great Team


This team is still great. The way the defense is playing, all we need is Big Ben back and this team will get rolling. This team is finally starting to get healthy, and when they do, look out. Until then, let's chill with all the negativity. I understand frustration, but frustration only goes so far. The comments I saw were of a fanbase that was giving up - not feeling poorly after losing to a team we should have embarrassed.

This team has the potential to be a serious contender, all we need is 7 under center.
I disagree with a couple points... I do think you can blame the HC for is the lack of focus and sloppiness.... sloppiness is IMO what you get from bad coaching or lack of preparation. I don't care who the team is, when I see consistent sloppy play, penalties, poor clock management, I generally point the finger at the coach.

Wallace is horrible. His mistakes hurt us often. He's dropping balls, he doesn't make plays on the ball like a good WR. IMO he can be blamed for 2 INT's. and YES I think you could actually suggest he had a LOT to do with this loss... not everything obviously...there were no shortage of mistakes...but if he can break up that jump ball and catch the other... it's a different game.

I seriously wonder why the coaching staff is so willing to give Rainey a long leash but seem very quick to pull Dyer.

The officials once again did their best to keep us down. Yea flags were being thrown everywhere but it was the crucial ones that burned the steelers the most.

I think our defense is damn good... in today's NFL you have to expect your offense to do something to help. 7 turnovers is laughable.

If Ben doesn't come back next week, our season is over. Period.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:55 PM   #35
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Default Re: Key Things to Take Note of at 6-4

Totally. Penalties do not happen often if ever from a well disciplined team. When you play loose the effect is loss of yards and unnecessary penalties. Off sides and personal fouls should not even come into play IMO when your playing pro ball. Nice way to stay positive about Wallace but he'll be canned by the end of this season and let's hope Mendenhall will follow suit with Batch and Leftwich.

It's nice to hear some optimism but don't let it be confused with reality.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:02 PM   #36
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Default Re: Key Things to Take Note of at 6-4

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If Ben doesn't come back next week, our season is over. Period
I don't know if I have the stomach to see Ben being nearly killed out there behind a rabble of a line that will consist of

Starks-Legursky-Pouncey*-Foster-Beachum

*Its only a matter of time now for Pouncey....Our OL collapse is in full swing
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:23 PM   #37
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Default Re: Key Things to Take Note of at 6-4

Right? I would be devastated to see Big Ben blithe the big one for us fans. It's just a game and it's not worth his life.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:46 PM   #38
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Default Re: Key Things to Take Note of at 6-4

They wouldn't let Ben play if there was still a serious risk of reinjury, let alone death. C'mon now.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:46 PM   #39
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Default Re: Key Things to Take Note of at 6-4

My above comments came before the clowns game. I have not been convinced of Tomlin's competency for years, and he is not doing anything to change my mind this year. He is passively riding Lebeau's defense and the talent level of the offense to create a facade of ability on his part, (like Gruden). He is not making any effort to address ongoing problems that are well within his job description. Our special teams have shown flashes of mediocrity and a bulk of just being horrible all the way back to Cowher, but under Tomlin problems with the fundamentals continue year after year after year. We tend to be deepest at the most useless positions, (did we really need 5 tight ends last year?), and have to panic when key positions sustain injuries, (no adequate backup QB, too few dressed linemen every week). And Tomlin just pulls out his cliche of the month cards and "takes responsibility" with words but not deeds. Someone needs to ask when in all of his taking responsibility he is going to make affective changes, and what he intends those changes to be, and not let him get away with yet another wordy, but vapid non-response, "we'll have to look at the film and address it then". He's had more than five seasons to look at film. If can't see that no one on the team knows what to do in punt and kick off coverage I don't think he'll notice it tomorrow either. When it's every week for almost six seasons it's not individuals, it's coaching. They fired the special teams coach, good, but the guy they replaced him with somehow managed to be worse. The kick in the head is that they interviewed Bobby April a few years ago and let him walk away. Six years of this many drive-killing holding penalties is on the coaching. Yeah, I know we get calls against us that other teams don't, but it goes beyond that. We actually do have more holds and sloppy formations than other teams.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:00 PM   #40
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Default Re: Key Things to Take Note of at 6-4

I couldn't agree more jiminpa.

I am baffled when people make statements like Tomlin is a top 3 coach or "I would take him over Bill Belicheck." What fantasy world do you people live in? He's an average coach at best who got lucky for a couple seasons. Hell I'd take Bill O'Brien from Penn State over him. Yes I said it.
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