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Old 12-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #101
Edman
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Originally Posted by TRH View Post
agreed.
Our offensive line fails, can't protect the QB or open holes, our running game fails, we lose field position battles (almost always it seems) because our ST's are horrendous on both sides of the ball, our WR's have been dropping balls left and right and making dumb "mind" mistakes, fumbles by everyone, etc.

Yet, what do many of the boneheads around here do? Blame it on Ben Roethlisberger, of course!! Its all his fault.

Utterly ridiculous & insane.
Please stop with the ridiculous hyperbole and deliberately missing the point. Nobody is saying it's all Ben's fault. But he deserves to take a little more responsibility for the sputtering offense, especially when he's the centerpiece of it. Yeah, he'll gladly blame himself for the offense's failures, but taking responsibility takes another level he seems unwilling to do. Taking responsibility is recognizing what's wrong and doing whatever it takes to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Look at the cream of the crop QB's. Manning, Brees, and Brady, call them whatever you like, punks or whatever, but their offenses are consistently better than whatever Ben has. They demand the best from their offenses. If somebody screws up, they're on them in a second. They're not perfect all the time, but you can trust them to give their best week in and week out. Ben is not on that level.

To beat those guys, you need to be on or near the top of your game. To beat Ben Roethlisberger, you just need to be decent, as evidenced by all of the subpar QB's who've beaten Ben over the years. Tom Brady doesn't lose to Tim Tebow in the Playoffs, he shows the world what he always was. A Chump.

When Ben played smart early on in the year under Haley's direction, magically sacks were down, the O-Line was playing much better and the offense was more efficient. When he came back from the injury, he developed happy feet, his smart play disappeared and fell back into sandlot play that ultimately cost the Steelers.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:07 PM   #102
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

I used to be a big supporter of BB but I fear that he's turning into Brett Favre and can't be fixed.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:16 PM   #103
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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If it came between trusting Ben and Haley, I take the QB who won twice over the OC who never won anything. Does it sting when I remind you of that?
Since Haley and Ben occupy comlpetely different roles and positions within the organization, your comparisons are meaningless. Sorry if that stings a little bit.

Comparing Ben's wins (that nobody else had any hand in, right?) to Haley's lack of wins (that are all on Haley though, because it benefits your argument) has more to do with their overall situation than Haley's ability to call an effective gameplan.

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And yes, Ben was on his way to an MVP season because of how great he played on third down. He had to bail out the team after failed bubble screens and RUTM.
Sorry, 7, but according to multiple sources-- those bubble screens we have hated since years ago-- are mostlly Ben's doing. He is the one who audibles us to that play.

Notice how between two different offensive coordinators, that dreaded bubble screen seems to have followed us?

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Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
Maybe other teams finally caught on to the fact that the Steelers were playing their version of Marty ball, and Haley failed to adjust. Just continued to dink-and-dunk, RUTM, and bubble screens even when other teams had clearly caught on. Maybe next year they should try and let Ben win the game early. When you play Marty ball, the QB can't bail you out at the end every time.
Nope. You are wrong. Completely. I have to side with Edelman or whatever his name is.

While Haley was calling all the shots and had tighter control over this offense-- they were rolling. When they were playing his dink and dunk offense, Ben was on his way to a career season, was #1 in converting 3rd downs, and 2nd in ToP (an aging defense's best friend). Ben had hardly been touched through the first 5 games, and was on-pace for a career year.

When our offense started to go off the tracks into the weeds, was when the coaching staff starting listening to Mike Wallace's (and the stupid fans) cries for more deep passing plays, and that "we aren't using Wallace right".

It was around that time, that Ben started to default back to his "hold the ball for 9 seconds or more" self, looking for shots downfield that weren't there. The coaches started giving him more leeway to run the offense, and it turned out just like the past few years under Arians:

* lots of sacks, one resulting in his ribs getting broken
* inconsistency on 3rd down
* Olinemen going down with ankle injuries trying to hold their rushers for 7 seconds or more
* struggling in red zone
* sluggish offense
* inability to capitalize on turnovers

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Now Edman, I can tell you're pretty simple-minded, so take a deep breath before you read. No more knee-jerk reactions.
No need to resort to personal attacks just because he does not agree with you.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:23 PM   #104
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

I agree Riddle.

Anybody remember that Titans game last year where our offense did a short quick passing attack? We destroyed them (38-17). And Ben had 5 TD passes to boot. Then the rest of the year it was nowhere to be found. Ben can't stand to be told what to do despite success.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:32 PM   #105
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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I agree Riddle.

Anybody remember that Titans game last year where our offense did a short quick passing attack? We destroyed them (38-17). And Ben had 5 TD passes to boot. Then the rest of the year it was nowhere to be found. Ben can't stand to be told what to do despite success.
I remember

just because dink and dunk seems outdated, doesn't mean the Steelers can't utilize it to their advantage - everyone has been expecting a down field offense, which is why it was working to the tune of 6-3 and breathing down the Ravens' necks. Unless your throws are dead-accurate ala Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees, you aren't going to find a lot of success with a long strike offense.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:46 PM   #106
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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I remember

just because dink and dunk seems outdated, doesn't mean the Steelers can't utilize it to their advantage - everyone has been expecting a down field offense, which is why it was working to the tune of 6-3 and breathing down the Ravens' necks. Unless your throws are dead-accurate ala Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees, you aren't going to find a lot of success with a long strike offense.
Rodgers and Brees don't even look for long strikes. They always throw short to intermediate. Very rarely will they go deep.

Ben looks for a 15-20 yard gain on 3rd and 4 when just five yards will do.

Last Sunday: The Steelers are driving. They're in the Red Zone. It's 3rd and something inside the 10. Not a goal to go situation. The Steelers don't even need to score. Get inside the 1 for a first down.

What does Ben do? With a hole and an easy first down right in front of him and no Bengal within reach to stop him from getting the first or even the Touchdown (Bengals dropped back in coverage), Ben throws a ball into a covered guy which knuckles into the dirt in the endzone. It's 4th Down and we have to kick, which Sushi misses due to a bad snap. Steelers get NO points.

Classic Sandlot Ben and a microcosm of the whole day. Steelers go on to lose and are out of the postseason.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:49 PM   #107
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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I remember

just because dink and dunk seems outdated, doesn't mean the Steelers can't utilize it to their advantage - everyone has been expecting a down field offense, which is why it was working to the tune of 6-3 and breathing down the Ravens' necks. Unless your throws are dead-accurate ala Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees, you aren't going to find a lot of success with a long strike offense.
If dink and dunk is outdated then that Brady guy really sucks.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:43 PM   #108
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel View Post
No need to resort to personal attacks just because he does not agree with you.

That's like asking a person with Toureete's to stop making vocal outbursts.

Nice try though.

[btw: While I only quoted this part, as often is the case, the rest of your post was logical & well stated. Good job.]
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:54 PM   #109
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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You guys believe what you want about Ben. I believe he's not an accurate passer, neither in the pocket nor outside the pocket. His wobbly ball isn't the easiest to catch, even when it has the distance.
He's a scrambler./gunslinger, not the high completion % kinda guy. He can make something happen out of nothing but can also make nothing happen out of something.

It's my opinion and I'm not asking you to agree with it.
He hasn't been terribly accurate on the deep ball. Even on the routes where the receivers cleanly beat the db's he misses them.

The best qbs make the same mistake Ben made. The deference this your IMO is the turnovers. He is part of that but the receivers and rbs put the ball on the ground way too much this year. When you are -14 on turnovers, it makes it Rey hard to win games. And the running game sucked.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:57 PM   #110
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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I agree Riddle.

Anybody remember that Titans game last year where our offense did a short quick passing attack? We destroyed them (38-17). And Ben had 5 TD passes to boot. Then the rest of the year it was nowhere to be found. Ben can't stand to be told what to do despite success.
Don't forget the pats game. Same deal there.
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