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Old 12-28-2012, 12:56 PM   #131
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
The running game actually got far worse than last season. So much for running the football and it must be Ben's fault, not Haley.
Injuries and poor efficiency derailed the running game. Our running game was starting to look good - then the O-line started dropping like flies. When your offense does not score, you typically abandon the run because you are playing from behind... this and the injuries is what killed our running game.

Turnovers and poor play from our QB was the dagger to the heart of our offense... that is what happened in the 2nd half and that is exactly what caused our collapse. We all thought and hoped Ben was an older and wiser QB... that he could handle the responsibility of carrying the offense. Ben failed miserably at this ..and when he fell short he started pointing fingers at his coaches rather then step it up. Ben IMO quit... at the very least he failed to grow up and act like the leader he so desperately wants to be. His lack of maturity has been an issue his entire career... this season was no different.

If Ben doesn't believe in coach Haley and his system, then it's not going to work. I think we can all agree Ben basically said "fine, I'll do what ever you want...but It's not my fault when it fails" It was clear from the beginning that Ben was not "all in" and I think it's a part (not all) of the reasons our season was a total failure.

The other part: Poor coaching decisions...and to a lesser extent "injuries".

Either Ben grows up and gets behind Haley 100% or one of them has to go.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:03 PM   #132
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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The running game actually got far worse than last season. So much for running the football and it must be Ben's fault, not Haley.
You are forgetting the fact that the guy who got most of the carries last year, and who is still the most talented RB on our roster-- spent most of the year injured, and then benched due to a petty personality conflict with Mike Tomlin.

In his place, we tried to go with a RB-by-committee, using not so very good RBs. This approach might have worked if our whole Oline was not in the tub as usual.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:11 PM   #133
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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The running game actually got far worse than last season. So much for running the football and it must be Ben's fault, not Haley.
The failure of the running game was largely due to the recent/yearly disaster we call the O-line.
Haley's run sets were disappointing, too many inside runs, and as many have mentioned, our RB's getting the ball from Ben too far behind the LOS.
Tough to do that with Dwyer and Redman; neither is quick enough.
I'd still like to see Mendy get another shot with Haley next year if he is fit physically and mentally.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:17 PM   #134
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Results this year and results last year were almost identical in terms of ranking and season for the offense. The common denominator is Big Ben. Ben can blame someone all he wants, he has been terrible when it mattered the last two years.
Bens numbers last year 15 games 324 of 513 63.2% 4077yds 21TD 14 INT 63.62QBR
this year 12 games 269 of 426 63.1% 3131yds 23TD 8INT 61.28 QBR

Rushing last year 434 1903yards 13TD 4.4YPC Mendy 4.1 Redman 4.4 Dwyer 7.7
15 games this year 384 1446yds 8TD 3.8YPC Mendy 3.6 Redman 3.7 Dwyer 3.9

Offense last year 20.3 PPG 21st of 32 teams 12th in total yds 9th in first downs
this year 20.8 PPG 22nd of 32 teams 21st in totla yds 17th in first downs.

It does not take a genius to see that Bens numbers are very similar to last and to see the run game has been anemic. I am not blaming this all on Haley but some of you that are throwing our QB under the bus need to sling a little Haleys way. I do not believe Ben has been allowed to audible out of every play this year. While Arians was more of a pass first OC it is obvious that the run game suffered from the way it was used this year and in turned used even less. Arians was more of a pass on first down kind of guy and it should of opened up the run,(which when he did he was an effective OC) Haley on the other hand seems to be run first, in the hope that it would open up the pass and it would have if it had been somewhat effective. His running was ineffective thus making the 2nd and 3rd down plays that much harder for the offense especially the passing game, but Bens numbers are close to normal so where was the failure? Seems that Ben is taking too much of the blame and the coach and the RBs and the Line need to be held accountable for at least a full share of blame.

BTW Ben a career 63.1 completion passer his QBR the last 4 seasons are 67/64/63/61 or the old way of 100.5/97/90/ and this year 95.5

Last edited by Ricco Suavez; 12-28-2012 at 01:21 PM. Reason: added stat
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:27 PM   #135
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Either Ben grows up and gets behind Haley 100% or one of them has to go.
If one of them is going, it's Ben. We're not to keep switching OC's just because he's a petty immature POS. We're not going to win anything? Guess what? At this current rate, Ben will never sniff another Super Bowl with the Steelers anyway, so it doesn't make a difference anyway. Either he gets on board or he goes.

The Steelers can force his hand by bringing in some legitimate backup QB competition, not Old Man Charlie Batch or Glass Byron Leftwich, someone who will actually push Ben. We'll see how seriously Ben will take his job when there's someone gunning to replace him whenever he acts out of line.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:30 PM   #136
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

I love that our QB is suppose to just change his game to suit an OC, what happened to Haleys "I game plan to players strengths?" If by some of your reckonings Ben went along and did what he was told and it failed its because he "did not have his heart in it". Great reasoning, I mean he ran the plays and the failure was all his, even if there was no run game, his receivers fumble often, he is constantly put in 2nd and long and 3rd and long situations, all because he has not "bought in to the system". I got news for some of you Brady does not agree with his OC especially if he is constantly putting him in 3rd and long. Peyton would not put up with it either. But Ben you be a good soldier and just do what I tell you even if the play calling pretty much sucks, you better not audible out of those plays either. Seems like Ben put up similar numbers from his career, seems he did his job for the most part. Where was the run game, where was the stellar playcalling we were told to expect. I am not giving Ben a free pass his signature is on this season , I just think that like Madden wrote, there is more than enough blame to go around.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:49 PM   #137
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez View Post
Bens numbers last year 15 games 324 of 513 63.2% 4077yds 21TD 14 INT 63.62QBR
this year 12 games 269 of 426 63.1% 3131yds 23TD 8INT 61.28 QBR

Rushing last year 434 1903yards 13TD 4.4YPC Mendy 4.1 Redman 4.4 Dwyer 7.7
15 games this year 384 1446yds 8TD 3.8YPC Mendy 3.6 Redman 3.7 Dwyer 3.9

Offense last year 20.3 PPG 21st of 32 teams 12th in total yds 9th in first downs
this year 20.8 PPG 22nd of 32 teams 21st in totla yds 17th in first downs.

It does not take a genius to see that Bens numbers are very similar to last and to see the run game has been anemic. I am not blaming this all on Haley but some of you that are throwing our QB under the bus need to sling a little Haleys way. I do not believe Ben has been allowed to audible out of every play this year. While Arians was more of a pass first OC it is obvious that the run game suffered from the way it was used this year and in turned used even less. Arians was more of a pass on first down kind of guy and it should of opened up the run,(which when he did he was an effective OC) Haley on the other hand seems to be run first, in the hope that it would open up the pass and it would have if it had been somewhat effective. His running was ineffective thus making the 2nd and 3rd down plays that much harder for the offense especially the passing game, but Bens numbers are close to normal so where was the failure? Seems that Ben is taking too much of the blame and the coach and the RBs and the Line need to be held accountable for at least a full share of blame.

BTW Ben a career 63.1 completion passer his QBR the last 4 seasons are 67/64/63/61 or the old way of 100.5/97/90/ and this year 95.5
Only eight INTs is great... especially when FOUR of them came after BB returned from injury... (which is much less than 14).

AND, he had more TD passes (24>21) in three fewer games (only 12 games).

Once again, PRIOR to the INJURY, the Steelers were 6-3 and much improved in all offensive categories, specifically sacks allowed, third down completion percentage, and overall completion percentage. The offense was improving and BB was an MVP candidate.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:47 PM   #138
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

^^^^ I agree, Ben did not play well at times, and as QB he should be held accountable. But to put the lions share in his lap is absurd. Haley not being able to adapt, Injuries, TOs and a LOT of other Steelers not playing as well lead to this 7-8 record so far. Even though I think the defense played above expectations does not get them a free pass, once again we are near the bottom in creating turnovers. Our defense has scored only once this year and only once last year and we are a top five unit. Tampa Bay scored 3 times this year alone and they are near the bottom in pass defense.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:29 PM   #139
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel View Post
You are forgetting the fact that the guy who got most of the carries last year, and who is still the most talented RB on our roster-- spent most of the year injured, and then benched due to a petty personality conflict with Mike Tomlin.

In his place, we tried to go with a RB-by-committee, using not so very good RBs. This approach might have worked if our whole Oline was not in the tub as usual.
I haven't forgot. But it seems that Haley forgot about it and put the QB in third and long a lot of time. When you don't have a good running game, don't play like you have one. Haley should be the one realizes that and adjusts.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:23 PM   #140
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

Ben was having a career year in Haley's offense up until he got injured. He came back and didn't play well. None of that is Haley's fault.
Again. Ben was 17td, 4 int's, over 65% completions, over 50% 3rd down conversions (#1 in the leauge), and on pace for a record low in getting sacked up until the KC game where he got hurt.
Ben was terrible down the stretch, reverted back to his hold the ball and gunslinging. Forcing some bad throws that cost us games. He was getting rid of the ball with the dink and dunk early and it was working.

Injuries, receivers dropping balls, fumbling were all contributing factors to a bad season. But in his first year in Haley's offense, Ben was excelling. I see no reason why it won't get much better next year if Ben buys in to the offense.
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