The Myth of Terry Bradshaw

[Twentyvalve]

And Ben with the Patriots or the Packers?

I think the Brady and company would be hobbled by our offensive system. You see, the Patriots for example, actually design and execute plays with the intention of scoring.Even deep in their own territory. Not moving the ball 3 yards at a time for 3 points.

Originally Posted by pczach

If Tom Brady was the Steeler QB right now, with this roster, how many points a game do you think the Steelers would average? How many would they average with Rodgers, Manning, Brees, etc....?

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by pczach

If Tom Brady was the Steeler QB right now, with this roster, how many points a game do you think the Steelers would average? How many would they average with Rodgers, Manning, Brees, etc....?

The elite qbs averaged 32 ppg in 2011 and 30 ppg in 2012 in their own offenses. It really depends on how you value Miller, Wallace, Brown, Mendenhall and Sanders.

Last year it seemed like people thought the Broncos had no talent on their offense- it sure looked that way with Tebow running things. The Broncos went from 19 ppg under Tebow to 30 ppg under Manning. But that could have been the amazing play calls from the offensive coordinator making all the difference. Who really knows?

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by Twentyvalve

And Ben with the Patriots or the Packers?

I think the Brady and company would be hobbled by our offensive system. You see, the Patriots for example, actually design and execute plays with the intention of scoring.Even deep in their own territory. Not moving the ball 3 yards at a time for 3 points.

Here is one now. Hello, sir. It appears that you feel the playcalling is holding Roethlisberger back. If you have time to read my previous remark could you please tell me what you attribute the Broncos offensive success this season to? Is the switch from Tebow to Peyton Manning the cause for the 11 point per game increase in scoring or is it their offensive playcalls?

Is the offensive coordinator the key to an offense or is it the quarterback?

Are you aware that Josh McDaniels was being called the worst offensive coordinator in the NFL when he was with the Rams and is now directing the league's best offense with the Patriots? Did McDaniels become a football genius overnight or is Brady responsible for his success?

Are you aware that Mike Martz was fired from Chicago because he couldn't put up points with Jay Cutler? Are you aware that the following season the Bears put up even fewer points despite acquiring Brandon Marshall (Cutler's old teammate and bonafide NFL star)?

Hypothetically, if a couple of regular guys like you and me were in the NFL: would an NFL offense quarterbacked by yourself and coordinated by Tom Moore be better or worse than an NFL offense quarterbacked by Tom Brady and coordinated by me? Would you put up more points than Tom Brady because you have a genius OC? Or would Brady put up more points while I babbled nonsense into his headset?

[Ricco Suavez]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

The Packers are 15th in pass play %, the Pats and Broncos are 20th and 21st respectively. The Steelers are 13th. Do the other teams get more attempts? Sure because they are actually able to sustain drives. The Steelers run more passing plays per attempt than the teams that actually have an elite qb THE DIFFERENCE IS THE OTHER QBS ACTUALLY SUSTAIN DRIVES. Needed to point out my main point since reading comprehension is low on this board.

The Steelers have not had a solid run game since Whisenhunt left. Arians and Tomlin decided to "arm Ben with weapons." The entire Steeler philosophy has been hijacked to appease Ben. They only last year started focusing on the OL.

If Mendenhall had been healthy this year and Tomlin had not engaged in a pissing match with him; the Steelers would have had a viable rushing attack. "Haley didn't have a ground game with 6th round picks running behind an inexperienced line- get rid of Haley!"

Do you even read your own posts. first you state other Qbs sustain drives, yet after 9 games Ben was leading the league in 3rd down conversion, that is sustaining drives.

Next you say the offense has been designed to appease Ben yet Haley was brought in to bring back the glory days of pound the rock.

Then you even admit (whether you meant to or not) that the Run game sucked, because we did not have the talent( a fact I have pointed out numerous times)

So Ben and a team that at one time was 2nd in the league in TOP and 3rd down conversions could not sustain drives(BTW they were 2nd in TOP last year too). You want to down Ben for a lack of run game but you admit we did not have the tools necessary. You on a roll again, sorry I went yo bed, I could of had a field day with this kind of reasoning.

[pczach]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

The elite qbs averaged 32 ppg in 2011 and 30 ppg in 2012 in their own offenses. It really depends on how you value Miller, Wallace, Brown, Mendenhall and Sanders.

Last year it seemed like people thought the Broncos had no talent on their offense- it sure looked that way with Tebow running things. The Broncos went from 19 ppg under Tebow to 30 ppg under Manning. But that could have been the amazing play calls from the offensive coordinator making all the difference. Who really knows?

Well, that's just it. Brady has to play in THIS offense. With OUR line, wr, etc...

I don't think any of the top qb's would do any or much better in this system with this talent.

To be fair to everyone, players and coaches alike, I think we need to see what happens with a healthy roster and a year to reflect and adjust. I think the OL will be better next year. Some of our young linemen have some experience now and just need to get healthy and work on thier craft.. We'll see what old faces will be gone, and what new faces are added to strengthen the roster. I think our offensive philosophy has to be adjusted to fit the strengths of the players on the team. I believe that wasn't done this year offensively.

[Ricco Suavez]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

Here is one now. Hello, sir. It appears that you feel the playcalling is holding Roethlisberger back. If you have time to read my previous remark could you please tell me what you attribute the Broncos offensive success this season to? Is the switch from Tebow to Peyton Manning the cause for the 11 point per game increase in scoring or is it their offensive playcalls?

Is the offensive coordinator the key to an offense or is it the quarterback?

Are you aware that Josh McDaniels was being called the worst offensive coordinator in the NFL when he was with the Rams and is now directing the league's best offense with the Patriots? Did McDaniels become a football genius overnight or is Brady responsible for his success?

Are you aware that Mike Martz was fired from Chicago because he couldn't put up points with Jay Cutler? Are you aware that the following season the Bears put up even fewer points despite acquiring Brandon Marshall (Cutler's old teammate and bonafide NFL star)?

Hypothetically, if a couple of regular guys like you and me were in the NFL: would an NFL offense quarterbacked by yourself and coordinated by Tom Moore be better or worse than an NFL offense quarterbacked by Tom Brady and coordinated by me? Would you put up more points than Tom Brady because you have a genius OC? Or would Brady put up more points while I babbled nonsense into his headset?

Not a Cutler fan but he had nearly as bad of line as Ben had when they beat Arizona. Besides is he not one of the QB that you touted out on your posts as putting up points, until I pointed out that his defense and special teams scored 9 TDs this year. Those pooints are figured in also.

[MaidenIndiana]

you know what? The entire Steelers team had a bad season but we'll be back next year so get over it. Some of you so-called fans would bitch if you were hung with new ropes.

[pczach]

Originally Posted by MaidenIndiana

you know what? The entire Steelers team had a bad season but we'll be back next year so get over it. Some of you so-called fans would bitch if you were hung with new ropes.

Anyone with an Iron Maiden avatar is alright by me!

[Ricco Suavez]

You know I hear Elite this and Elite that, I hear there are only 4 Elite QBs, I disagree, I have said there are 2 and then everyone else. Ben is not Peyton, or Brady, who is?, Ben does not play on a team like the Saints who have put all their cap eggs into the offense, who is led by an offensive minded coach. Rodgers is a special QB, and yet he was bounced from the playoffs early last year and lost to a KC team, and they have lost their share this year as well. Eli has benefited from his defense more than any other QB in both of his SB wins,(although I will say his play up to the SB in the playoffs was great).

Yet these QB are all people trot out when downing Ben . Does it matter that I could pull up stats and numbers that show Ben is at least in the equation of being a 5-7 QB, no his detractors point to his first SB ,but not his play in the playoffs. Does it matter if he had a new OC and a new system,(that I agree he likely did not buy into) no, But Haley is right and Ben is always wrong in these peoples eyes. No thought at all that the defenses caught up with Haleys plan. They blame Ben for the lack of a running game, while Ben would be the person to most benefit from a running game, yet the numbers show we were very poor at the run. The reason there is not as many attempts is it was ineffective, the same theory that people use to bash Arians for his pass first offense, it was not as effective. Bens play through his first 9 years is unlike any we have seen as Steeler Fans, His numbers, team wins are better than nearly any other QB, Two SBs that I promise you he had something to do with.

Ben is compared to Peyton and Brady and Terry Bradshaw because he has earned the right to be in those type of conversations. When Ben is through he will have almost every QB record of this franchise ( except SB wins unless the team returns to form) .I think most of this type of hate comes not from his play on the field but form the hatred of his personality (not a factor to me since all I care for is Steeler wins) his off field issues, ( once again not an issue for me since basically no proof, and no attacks substantiated., ) and finally he is not Steeler Football. This last one is what baffles me the most, he has played hurt, (real not imagined) he has played hard nosed, running many times for first downs, throwing blocks, and fighting for a chance to make a play when the OL was as bad as it could get.(The Arizona SB we had the worst line in the NFL, not me, but According to the NFL). I do not know what more some could want, bad years happen to most teams even with so called elite QBs, Saints Giants anyone. A bad year does not condemn hm to this trade, get rid of BS. But what a bad year does is give all the haters the ammunition they feel they need and the God given right to bash the Steeler QB, not like it has not been done before and done better more than likely.

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez

Do you even read your own posts. first you state other Qbs sustain drives, yet after 9 games Ben was leading the league in 3rd down conversion, that is sustaining drives.

Next you say the offense has been designed to appease Ben yet Haley was brought in to bring back the glory days of pound the rock.

Then you even admit (whether you meant to or not) that the Run game sucked, because we did not have the talent( a fact I have pointed out numerous times)

So Ben and a team that at one time was 2nd in the league in TOP and 3rd down conversions could not sustain drives(BTW they were 2nd in TOP last year too). You want to down Ben for a lack of run game but you admit we did not have the tools necessary. You on a roll again, sorry I went yo bed, I could of had a field day with this kind of reasoning.

Drives can also be sustained by picking up first downs on 1st and 2nd down. Sustaining drives is measured in first downs not in 3rd down conversion percentage.

This is possibly why Steelers were 17th in 1st downs/game. (Pats 1st, Broncos 3rd, Saints 5th, Packers 7th). That rounds out the elite qbs nicely. All top 10 once again just like the points they score year after year.

Can I expect an apology in the near future? Or will you dogmatically pursue your agenda of attacking the Steelers to preserve the illusion of Ben?

The personnel of the Steelers offense was designed to appease Ben. Yes it was. Tomlin spoke of "arming Ben with weapons" and then drafted Mendenhall and Sweed in his first year. You know... the year of Ben's tall wr comments? Do you consider Limas tall at 6-4? Is there any correlation between Tomlin's "arming with weapons" comments, Ben's "tall wr" comments and the 2008 NFL draft selection of a tall wr? Mike Wallace was drafted the following year, and Brown and Sanders the year after that. Having Ward, Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Miller, and Mendenhall on the team was done specifically to surround Ben with "weapons." This team was built around Ben he has had EVERY opportunity to succeed.