An Apology to Arians! I Was Wrong!

[SteelersCanada]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

My point is that Ben is no where near Brady.

No one is suggesting that he is and to suggest that Ben is anywhere near the talent of Brady is a mistake. The point is, you don't have to be to win championships because stats don't mean anything. The only stats that matter are postseason wins and in that regard, Ben is top 3.

YPG / Offensive output shouldn't be taken into consideration when a quarterback is 10-4 in the postseason and has 2 Super Bowl rings. He knows how to win games. So, obviously, he's doing something right. Defense wins championships, but defenses don't go 78 yards in the Super Bowl and throw an amazing pass to Santonio Holmes to win a championship against a future Hall of Fame quarterback.

[harrison'samonster]

this thread is nothing but a Ben Bashing thread in disguise.

[FanSince72]

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

arians was a freakin turd. 1 bad season from hailey doesn't validate 5 years of horrible game plans and play calling. blame the players and execution all you want , but then ask yourself why after 5 years of teaching / coaching the players still couldn't become efficient in running his offense ...
if you paid a math tutor for 5 years to teach your kid math and after 5 years the kid still struggled to put up more than a C on a test , were you getting your money's worth ?

"...5 years of horrible game plans and play calling..."?

Do you seriously believe that?

5 winning seasons
Only one of them with less than 10 wins (3 with 12 wins)
2 Super Bowl appearances
1 Super Bowl win.

Yeah, that's pretty horrible stuff alright!

And let's not forget THIS year with Indy; 11-5 and missing a Division Title by just one game with a young team and a rookie QB AND while serving double-duty as both the Head Coach and the OC - and the team LOVES him not to mention that his name is popping up all over the place for a HC job.

Yeah, this Arians dude is a real cancer!

[lloydwoodson]

To reiterate: I was not asking for Arians back. I didn't like him and I still don't but he was not the problem.

I am not asking for Haley to be fired. I think people should see what he can do with a healthy qb and a healthy rb before they pass judgement.

I think Ben is an excellent qb and would have no problems with him being rated any where from 6th to 10th in the league.

I am trying to stymie the consensus that the problem with the offense is that Ben has not been given enough control.

Ben has surpassed Joe Montana's single season bests in both TDs and yardage. When is enough enough? When did "game manager" become a dirty word? When did "running quarterback" become a dirty word?

It is hard enough to win in the NFL without trying to do it in a flashy and explosive way. The best qbs ever play within a system and what sets them apart is their fast decision making, quickness and execution.

Montana was a game manager and he had Rice, Taylor and Jones to throw to.

Aikman was a game manager and he had Irvin, Harper and Novacek to throw to.

Since when did Ben become bigger than these legends? When did football fundamentals change? When did crisp timing routes become outdated?

The fact is Ben is not Brady or Manning and he is never going to put up 30 points a game. The Steelers tried to make that happen with Arians and it did not work. Roethlisberger had Ward, Miller, Wallace, Brown, Sanders and Mendenhall on the same offense and he could not put up 30 points a game.

Ben is lost. He doesn't know who he is. He is being reminded of who he is by the Rooneys through Haley. Ben is a really good dropback quarterback who excels at play-action and improvisation.

Roethlisberger can be a huge part of the Steelers resurgence next year... if he plays from within the team. The great players are great because they make the players around them better. Just ask Hines and Bettis.

[FanSince72]

"Roethlisberger can be a huge part of the Steelers resurgence next year... if he plays from within the team."


Sorry, I disagree.

Ben's stock-in-trade is his ability to make it up as he goes and he does his best work when he's allowed to improvise and that's what Arians tried to let him do. It's also why it never seemed as if there was much of a game plan but with a guy like Ben, that's the best it can look because it's impossible to "game plan" improvisation.

Haley, on the other hand, is trying to turn Ben into some sort of robot, pocket-passer and that's like trying using a Ferrari as a grocery-getter. But Haley's ego cannot allow Ben to be who he is because Ben - not Haley - might get the credit for doing great things and guys like Haley can't deal with that.

Arians had no such ego problems and thus was able to experiment and try to let Ben's strong points rule the day. It didn't always work, but more often than not it did and most importantly, Ben was comfortable and when you're comfortable, you tend to do your best work.

Ben is not and should not be a game-manager and Haley along with the Rooneys need to accept that.

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by harrison'samonster

this thread is nothing but a Ben Bashing thread in disguise.

That is EXACTLY what it is

But didn't you find it insightful? An NFL OC is said to be the worst in the league by the media one year and is in control of the best offense in the NFL the next. Personnel is much more responsible than coaching for wins.

Defense wins championships, but defenses don't go 78 yards in the Super Bowl and throw an amazing pass to Santonio Holmes to win a championship against a future Hall of Fame quarterback.

No but they do go 100 yards on an int for a td in the dying seconds of the first half.

And they do sack the other teams qb on back-to-back plays so he can't orchestrate the superbowl comeback of his own because your qb has waited 119 minutes to throw his first superbowl td.

And they do run back an int 40 yards for a td in the 4th quarter of the AFC championship game to turn a potentially game-winning drive for the other team into a 23-14 win (without which you wouldn't be in the superbowl in the first place).

[Edman]

The only thing I'm apologizing to Arians for is shouldering all the blame for whenever Ben screwed up.

The only thing I'll put on Arians is that he put too much focus on trying to be buddies with Ben. I'm still happy he isn't here and I'm sure he's quite happy where he is too.

[pczach]

Excuse me, but how many Super Bowls have the team with the "best quarterback ever" (Tom Brady) won in the last 7 years?

Answer: 0. Yes, that would mean ZERO!

How many last minute, game-winning drives has he had in the last 7 Super Bowls?

Answer: 0 again!


I think someone's theory may have some holes in it.

Since Ben and Eli Manning have entered thier prime years, they have won 4 of the last 7 Super Bowls. I would like an explanation for this obvious but never mentioned fact.

[Ricco Suavez]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

To reiterate: I was not asking for Arians back. I didn't like him and I still don't but he was not the problem.

I am not asking for Haley to be fired. I think people should see what he can do with a healthy qb and a healthy rb before they pass judgement.

I think Ben is an excellent qb and would have no problems with him being rated any where from 6th to 10th in the league.

I am trying to stymie the consensus that the problem with the offense is that Ben has not been given enough control.

Ben has surpassed Joe Montana's single season bests in both TDs and yardage. When is enough enough? When did "game manager" become a dirty word? When did "running quarterback" become a dirty word?

It is hard enough to win in the NFL without trying to do it in a flashy and explosive way. The best qbs ever play within a system and what sets them apart is their fast decision making, quickness and execution.

Montana was a game manager and he had Rice, Taylor and Jones to throw to.

Aikman was a game manager and he had Irvin, Harper and Novacek to throw to.

Since when did Ben become bigger than these legends? When did football fundamentals change? When did crisp timing routes become outdated?

The fact is Ben is not Brady or Manning and he is never going to put up 30 points a game. The Steelers tried to make that happen with Arians and it did not work. Roethlisberger had Ward, Miller, Wallace, Brown, Sanders and Mendenhall on the same offense and he could not put up 30 points a game.

Ben is lost. He doesn't know who he is. He is being reminded of who he is by the Rooneys through Haley. Ben is a really good dropback quarterback who excels at play-action and improvisation.

Roethlisberger can be a huge part of the Steelers resurgence next year... if he plays from within the team. The great players are great because they make the players around them better. Just ask Hines and Bettis.

Finally a post I can in good conscience agree with nearly every point. I agree Ben is lost, but i think the FO contributed to that by asking him to revamp his game, a style that has been productive so far. I agree that Haleys game plan has the potential to work, ( I just do not believe we have had a healthy line or the RBs needed to do it) Haleys game plan was starting to show results even after a shaky start, (those first 3 losses were not entirely on the offense though). I still believe that both parties need to compromise, we need WRs that will catch and hold on to the ball, we need a defense that creates some TO's (24th in the league) we need some defensive and ST scores (1 this year and 2 last year, Chicago had 9 this year and TB while last in defense manage 3 on defensive alone) We need a running game that does not disappear, a RB that can get some tough yards yet can break it outside occasionally, even catch a ball now and then. Would love to have a Marshall Faulk type but they do not show up every day, we have what we have. I believe the Wr just had that type of year that a lot went wrong, still believe in most of them, not ready to throw them away because they are not CJ, Fitz, and not ready to give up[ on our QB just because he is not Peyton or Brady.

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by FanSince72

"Roethlisberger can be a huge part of the Steelers resurgence next year... if he plays from within the team."


Sorry, I disagree.

Ben's stock-in-trade is his ability to make it up as he goes and he does his best work when he's allowed to improvise and that's what Arians tried to let him do. It's also why it never seemed as if there was much of a game plan but with a guy like Ben, that's the best it can look because it's impossible to "game plan" improvisation.

I disagree here. You design a play, the quarterback goes through his progressions, and the quarterback improvises IF the play breaks down. You don't start out improvising.

Ben is more than capable of playing more structured football- he just doesn't wanna. He is best at 5 step drops and get the ball out whether he wants to admit that to himself or not.

Ben was comfortable and when you're comfortable, you tend to do your best work.

Ben is not and should not be a game-manager and Haley along with the Rooneys need to accept that.

I think you hade made a very insightful point here. I don't think there is another OC who will gain Ben's trust the way he did. Arians somehow managed to break through Ben's douchebag persona and become a father figure to him. Now that I think back on it that was pretty damn remarkable! Arians is more clever than he is given credit. Hindsight is 20/20.

At this stage in the game Ben will butt heads with any OC he has. If Jesus was his OC he'd want to kick his ass. I think he likes Arians because Arians let him do it his way and gave him more control.

It is just a shame "Ben's way" doesn't put more points on the board.