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Old 01-01-2013, 10:27 AM   #51
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Default Re: The Myth of Terry Bradshaw

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Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez View Post

Ben is compared to Peyton and Brady and Terry Bradshaw because he has earned the right to be in those type of conversations.
This made me laugh. There are a lot of bad reasons Ben is included in "elite" conversations; what you will never hear is a conversation that asks if Brady, Manning, Brees, or Rodgers deserve to be called "elite."
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:28 AM   #52
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Default Re: The Myth of Terry Bradshaw

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Originally Posted by lloydwoodson View Post
Bradshaw's first taste of media and public attention did not occur until 1970 when he was drafted with the Pittsburgh Steelers' first pick. Bradshaw absolutely hated the attention and prayed to God that he would be out of Pittsburgh before he even won a superbowl with them.

Based on Bradshaw's personality and the nature of fans to criticize anything but superbowl wins, it is safe to assume that Bradshaw would have hated playing in any NFL city. By his own admission Bradshaw hated the Pittsburgh fans by the time he won a superbowl and was unaffected when he was heaped with praise.
So you are saying that from the time that Terry arrived in Pittsburgh there was criticism from fans and pressure to win the Super Bowl??? You lost me on that one...
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:29 AM   #53
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Default Re: The Myth of Terry Bradshaw

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Growing up in Pittsburgh, I’ve watched the Steelers since I was a little kid. I witnessed most of Bradshaw’s career, and the four Super Bowls. I’ve also watched Ben. Both quarterbacks are similar in their style of play, yet they excel in different aspects. But overall, Ben is better than Bradshaw. Ben is bigger. He’s tougher. He has got a stronger arm. He can move outside the pocket, and throw the ball on-the-run better. In his prime, he could scramble better. Bradshaw was great, but Ben has more natural ability at quarterback.
It took Bradshaw a long time to, fully, develop as a quarterback. Early in his career, he had the arm-strength, but his passes were a little wobbly. He didn’t throw a pretty ball. He was not throwing a tight spiral until he was in the league 6-7 years.
And, as for Bradshaw’s four Super Bowl wins, the league was different back then. There were the haves, and the have-nots. The Steelers became one of the haves, because we had the scouts that could go out, find and evaluate players that were coming out of college better than most of the other teams. By the late 1970’s, the NFL decided to try and correct the imbalance of talent in the league. They wanted parody. What they did was centralize the evaluation process of players coming out of college by creating what is now known as the Scouting Combine. The move by the NFL made a difference, but free agency is what , finally, leveled the playing field, somewhat. Today, there are no teams that are dominating the league, over a period of years. There are still winning franchises, like the Steelers that operate better than others, but there are no dynasties.
We def don't win XL & XLIII without Ben - we needed to get over the hump at the QB position, and Ben def has had his moments in the sun. I wouldn't change any of those playoff performances, and despite an abysmal showing in XL - he still was involved in a TD run, and, the El pass to Ward to seal the deal (on top of his 3 great performances on the road) I don't have to remind everyone of one of if not the best SB drive ever in XLIII.

As a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers above any and all QBs, I still reserve the right to bitch, complain and generally demand that Ben do some things to evolve and improve himself so as a whole, Steelers Nation can enjoy at least 1 more SB victory before the guy hangs it up. On his current course, this team is not going to win another one before he retires. He isn't responsible for injuries or dropsies to and by other players, nor should he shoulder all the blame after being shaky, and not nearly healthy enough upon return (as he admitted).

You know which career this is starting to mirror though? Not Bradshaws. Closer to Brett Favre. How many times after his SB victory, and appearance, did we hear more about his toughness, grit, and guts over his abilities to read defenses, go through progressions, and release the ball quickly, move the chains, and put the team on his shoulders. I don't want fantasy stats, I just am tired of hearing how great Mr. John Wayne, guts & grit, Mr. "Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword" continues to be. He has never moved passed that, and neither will the progression of the offense - regardless of identity. Ok - let Ben be Ben, and the let offense be the offense that it is - that is what I'm hearing - that this version is acceptable and Ben isn't responsible for when the offense doesn't improve. Seems to me unless he's got a pal-around at OC, he's going to be a jerk about it.

Most Ben apologists thought it was so wonderful that Ben accepted blame - guess what, that' what a great QB should do. The response that this was so great of him is very telling, and proof that you won't find him taking responsibility that often. I'll praise Ben for being the toughest SOB at QB, and managing to make something out of nothing, with flashes of some fantastic never-give-upness - but that's where it ends. Ben's reliance on his improv is no longer a surprise to defenses, thus - regression. They were 6-3 and looking like world-beaters before the injuries. Bruce employed the dink and dunk against the Patriots that HEAVILY relied on TOP, yet it worked. These are flashes of what Ben is capable of, and where this offense needs to go to start carrying the load for once.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:32 AM   #54
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Default Re: The Myth of Terry Bradshaw

or those who have forgotten, Ben was huge in the playoffs leading us to the first SB win. Without him, we would have been ousted in the first round.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:32 AM   #55
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Default Re: The Myth of Terry Bradshaw

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Drives can also be sustained by picking up first downs on 1st and 2nd down. Sustaining drives is measured in first downs not in 3rd down conversion percentage.

This is possibly why Steelers were 17th in 1st downs/game. (Pats 1st, Broncos 3rd, Saints 5th, Packers 7th). That rounds out the elite qbs nicely. All top 10 once again just like the points they score year after year.

Can I expect an apology in the near future? Or will you dogmatically pursue your agenda of attacking the Steelers to preserve the illusion of Ben?

The personnel of the Steelers offense was designed to appease Ben. Yes it was. Tomlin spoke of "arming Ben with weapons" and then drafted Mendenhall and Sweed in his first year. You know... the year of Ben's tall wr comments? Do you consider Limas tall at 6-4? Is there any correlation between Tomlin's "arming with weapons" comments, Ben's "tall wr" comments and the 2008 NFL draft selection of a tall wr? Mike Wallace was drafted the following year, and Brown and Sanders the year after that. Having Ward, Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Miller, and Mendenhall on the team was done specifically to surround Ben with "weapons." This team was built around Ben he has had EVERY opportunity to succeed.
You will not get an apology on this kind of logic.

1. First downs can be gotten on first and second downs, but you must not have watched the first nine games or have selective memory. We RAN on first down nearly every time, then we might RUN again or Pass a short pass that was not enough for the first down. Than is G47's argument of tying Bens hands and I could not agree more. This was when Ben was leading the league in 3rd downs, not because we wanted too, but because he had to.

2 As far as Mendenhall and Sweed, I was happy with both picks at the time. I am sure I can go back to that thread and likely find others like yourself who blame Ben for EVERYTHING, (maybe even you) who were happy too. Mendenhall was rated a top 2-3 RB and Sweed the same. The Steelers whiffed on at least one and looking more like both. The FO missed the part that both are head cases, one who tweets and posts outlandish statements and the other a "I can't catch the ball anymore" syndrome.

3. As far as BEn wanting a tall receiver, who would not. Brady has too tall WRs packaged as TEs. Peyton has Thomas 6'3", tall enough for you. Ben had Plax his first few years and when he left, sure he would of liked another. I am sorry but your logic is as sound as the national budget.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:33 AM   #56
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Default Re: The Myth of Terry Bradshaw

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So you are saying that from the time that Terry arrived in Pittsburgh there was criticism from fans and pressure to win the Super Bowl??? You lost me on that one...
Bradshaw did not win a superbowl until 5 years into his career. During that time he wanted to be out of Pittsburgh. The pressure he felt was unwanted attention whether good or bad and was not specifically related to the superbowl or he would have said so. The point is that even after he won the superbowl and people started praising him he already hated Pittsburgh by his own account.

Bradshaw was basically Ricky Williams without the pot.

Bradshaw could not stand to be scrutinized. Now Bradshaw scrutinizes others for a living. Funny huh?
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:34 AM   #57
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Default Re: The Myth of Terry Bradshaw

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Bradshaw did not win a superbowl until 5 years into his career. During that time he wanted to be out of Pittsburgh. The pressure he felt was unwanted attention whether good or bad and was not specifically related to the superbowl or he would have said so. The point is that even after he won the superbowl and people started praising him he already hated Pittsburgh by his own account.

Bradshaw was basically Ricky Williams without the pot.

Bradshaw could not stand to be scrutinized. Now Bradshaw scrutinizes others for a living. Funny huh?
Pressure yes. But not Super Bowl pressure from the time he arrived. I'm glad he stuck it out :)
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:45 AM   #58
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Default Re: The Myth of Terry Bradshaw

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You will not get an apology on this kind of logic.

1. First downs can be gotten on first and second downs, but you must not have watched the first nine games or have selective memory. We RAN on first down nearly every time, then we might RUN again or Pass a short pass that was not enough for the first down. Than is G47's argument of tying Bens hands and I could not agree more. This was when Ben was leading the league in 3rd downs, not because we wanted too, but because he had to.

2 As far as Mendenhall and Sweed, I was happy with both picks at the time. I am sure I can go back to that thread and likely find others like yourself who blame Ben for EVERYTHING, (maybe even you) who were happy too. Mendenhall was rated a top 2-3 RB and Sweed the same. The Steelers whiffed on at least one and looking more like both. The FO missed the part that both are head cases, one who tweets and posts outlandish statements and the other a "I can't catch the ball anymore" syndrome.

3. As far as BEn wanting a tall receiver, who would not. Brady has too tall WRs packaged as TEs. Peyton has Thomas 6'3", tall enough for you. Ben had Plax his first few years and when he left, sure he would of liked another. I am sorry but your logic is as sound as the national budget.


1. More Ben overcoming the horrible offensive coordinator BS. The Steelers averaged 20 1st/G under Arians over his tenure and only had 19 1st/G under the terrible playcalling of Haley. The horror!

2/3. The point is not whether the draft picks worked out. I thought Sweed would be the next Randy Moss. The point is that the Steelers consciously made an effort to increase Ben's offensive role and production through the draft and made a point of it in the media. It has not worked. Wallace, Brown and Sanders panned out nicely and Mendenhall is a lot better than he is given credit for.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:02 AM   #59
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Default Re: The Myth of Terry Bradshaw

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1. More Ben overcoming the horrible offensive coordinator BS. The Steelers averaged 20 1st/G under Arians over his tenure and only had 19 1st/G under the terrible playcalling of Haley. The horror!

2/3. The point is not whether the draft picks worked out. I thought Sweed would be the next Randy Moss. The point is that the Steelers consciously made an effort to increase Ben's offensive role and production through the draft and made a point of it in the media. It has not worked. Wallace, Brown and Sanders panned out nicely and Mendenhall is a lot better than he is given credit for.
And no other Team drafts to improve, brilliant concept. You just said yourself that you thought Sweed would be next Randy Moss, who would not draft the next Randy Moss, for any reason. You are grasping for straws in this blame game, now Ben is at fault in drafting who you perceived as the next Randy Moss. Hey smart FO give QB weapons,(shh, dont tell anyone but you cant score without weapons, much less be a playoff team) yet since we did it for our QB it is all SOOOOO wrong. Geesh. I............Can't .................Reason ........with ............such .................logic......must.............. watch......jeopardy...........try .......to ..........get........back............my.........br ain.......cells.........I.....wasted............re ading ......this..............drivel.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:04 PM   #60
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Default Re: The Myth of Terry Bradshaw

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Most Ben apologists thought it was so wonderful that Ben accepted blame - guess what, that' what a great QB should do. The response that this was so great of him is very telling, and proof that you won't find him taking responsibility that often. I'll praise Ben for being the toughest SOB at QB, and managing to make something out of nothing, with flashes of some fantastic never-give-upness - but that's where it ends. Ben's reliance on his improv is no longer a surprise to defenses, thus - regression. They were 6-3 and looking like world-beaters before the injuries. Bruce employed the dink and dunk against the Patriots that HEAVILY relied on TOP, yet it worked. These are flashes of what Ben is capable of, and where this offense needs to go to start carrying the load for once.
steelfury, I keep explaining it - the Steelers don't want to be an offensive team, they want to remain a defensive team.

The reason the Steelers were successful against the Patriots in 2011 wasn't just about TOP, it was because they attacked a weakness. In the 2010 game against the Patriots, the Steelers did not attack a weakness, they played Marty ball - which resulted in Ben having to throw for close to 400 yards to make the game look closer than it was.

This season, the Steelers played close to the vest football. They wanted to keep the games close. They handcuffed Ben for the majority of the game, leaving the game up for grabs in the end. It was either Ben pulls a miracle out of his ass or the Steelers were screwed. Now, do the Patriots handcuff Brady? Do the Broncos handcuff Manning? Are those two teams constantly fretting over time of possession? Do those teams play Marty ball, or do they attack?

See, you want it both ways. You want Ben to be reduced to a game manager for the first 58 minutes of a game, and you want the Steelers to be a ball-control team. When that doesn't work, you want Ben to bail the Steelers out from their own stupidity every time. Doesn't work like that. Don't bitch about the lack of scoring output when you want the team to play in a shell.

Want more from Ben? Let him try to win the game early. Stop with the predictable play calling (run, run, pass) and stop fretting over time of possession.
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