The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

[Twentyvalve]

Actually turnovers are a big part of the game. And the Steelers D sucks at that. Most teams can win a few games a year by points after turnovers, the more you get, the more potential for points. I would rather have a middle of the pack D that can actually force turnovers than the anomaly of D we have now.

Big plays win games. The D needs to learn to make a few. I think they may have had one or two really huge plays this year. They seem quite adept at big plays in the first half. Pretty useless.

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

Why don't you give the defense a break? Talking about their turnovers! Shame!

Steelers D has been in the top 10 in yards allowed and points allowed every year Ben has been in the league... and now they are getting older and you have the nerve to blame the D the first time they show they are human! Shaaaaaame!

Is it the same defense it was 3 years ago? Nope. Not nearly as good. Polamalu is getting older and Harrison is likely gone. They can't carry the D so now the D can't carry Ben. But you know what? They shouldn't have to.

How about the "top 5 quarterback" puts up one top 5 offense some time in the near future? He is going to have to do it in spite of his coordinators- they are only holding him back.

"Dear Steelers #1 Defense, you aren't doing enough. Please cause more turnovers and hold everyone to ten points a game. That way our quarterback can actually win games. He doesn't do so well if you score more than 20. Sincerely, a concerned fan."

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez

I am sorry , I was talking team needs, like the need for effective rushing, some ST plays that actually help the team and not hamper. The defense is not immune to criticism or is that just for the offense and the QB position. We are 24th in the league in TO differential at -10, we have had only one defensive score this year and none on ST, LLoyd you are the one who ponied out the Chicago offense in earlier threads but they had 9 TDs by the defense and ST. I am willing to except the offense was a problem, I am willing to accept that Ben was part of that problem this year, why can't ya'll accept that the defense while #1 in yards and scoring still failed at plays that are game changers, and that the run game was anemic. BTW that elite carp is gettin old, I do not come here every thread touting Ben as elite. I do not compare Ben to Brady or Peyton yet its the only assessment that can make nay sense of your arguments. Why do you not post a rebuttal to the Bradshaw myth, facts scare you dont they.

The only reason I mentioned the Bears was they scapegoated Mike Martz.

They fired Martz at the end of last year and brought in a new OC AND Brandon Marshall who already had great chemistry with Cutler.

The new OC with Marshall was worse than last year because Cutler sucks and his talent has been over-evaluated for years.

I thought it was a strong comparison to the Steelers predicament. The Steelers offense has now scored 20-23 ppg for 8 of Ben's 9 years. 3 different OCs 1 QB. Nothing changes.

People don't seem to get it.

[Fire Arians]

as long as dwyer and redman are our top backs, nobody will respect our running game

[steelfury02]

Originally Posted by Fire Arians

as long as dwyer and redman are our top backs, nobody will respect our running game

the only way I see the run game working enough is if both of them are in the best physical shape of their lives and severely commit - they would have to be focusing and playing at an A level week in and week out - but yes, no one does or will respect it and we will be stuck in a rut until that happens

[OX1947]

When you find yourself blaming assistant freakin coaches for your teams issues, you know your team and common sense is shot. Whether it is Arians, Cameron, Martz, etc. All those teams suck with or without them. Assistant coaches are assistant coaches, they don't do jack crap a difference. Its players and the Head Coach who matter. Wake up and smell the logic.

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by Twentyvalve

Actually turnovers are a big part of the game. And the Steelers D sucks at that. Most teams can win a few games a year by points after turnovers, the more you get, the more potential for points. I would rather have a middle of the pack D that can actually force turnovers than the anomaly of D we have now.

Big plays win games. The D needs to learn to make a few. I think they may have had one or two really huge plays this year. They seem quite adept at big plays in the first half. Pretty useless.

I agree that the D needs to cause more turnovers. While LeBeau's D isn't known for causing turnovers per se it certainly has generated more in the past.

Steelers D was 4th in turnovers in 2008 26th in 2009 6th in 2010 32nd in 2011 25th in 2012

Wow. Either Lebeau changes his defensive philosophy completely from one year to the next OR the players executing the plays aren't getting it done. I am going to go with the latter.

Harrison and Polamalu caused 15 turnovers in 2008, 16 in 2010, 4 in 2011, and 3 in 2012

Was Lebeau telling them not to cause turnovers the same way Tomlin tells Ben not to score too fast? Or are they just getting past their prime and can no longer perform miracles?

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by steelfury02

the only way I see the run game working enough is if both of them are in the best physical shape of their lives and severely commit - they would have to be focusing and playing at an A level week in and week out - but yes, no one does or will respect it and we will be stuck in a rut until that happens

I think they should get fat and truck defenders like Bettis used to do. Remember when he was so fat defenders couldn't get their arms around him? Those were the days.

[Ricco Suavez]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

The only reason I mentioned the Bears was they scapegoated Mike Martz.

They fired Martz at the end of last year and brought in a new OC AND Brandon Marshall who already had great chemistry with Cutler.

The new OC with Marshall was worse than last year because Cutler sucks and his talent has been over-evaluated for years.

I thought it was a strong comparison to the Steelers predicament. The Steelers offense has now scored 20-23 ppg for 8 of Ben's 9 years. 3 different OCs 1 QB. Nothing changes.

People don't seem to get it.

You know what else has not changed the owner and the Steeler philosophy, What has changed as much as any thing is poor OL play and that lack of a real rushing offense. We play under a salary Cap, money has to divided up in parts, some here for offense, and some here for defense, and some here for ST. The Steelers have always invested more into the Defense as well as high draft picks, they used to invest in the OL as this is what has made the great Steeler teams of old go, Defense and running the ball. Well they drafted Ben after seeing that you needed a QB to get over the hump so to speak and the team let the OL decline as bad as I have ever seen, yet we won with defense and Ben's play as a scrambling make something out of nothing QB. Now we have some talent and depth finally showing up on the OL but they are not there yet, proven by the lack of a running game. Its not Bens fault that we cannot run the ball, its not just the number of passes to run ratio, when we do run it has been ineffective that is reflected by the 3.7 yd average and the inability to get even 2 yds on short yardage situations. Give this team a running game again and watch the scoring average and wins go up, or commit to a true offensive style and see what Ben can do and then I will debate his worth again, right now he is more valuable to this team than ever before, but I do not expect you to see that, all you want to do is trot out Terry great scoring years but neglected to mention all those 2000 yd rushing years to go along with them.

[steelfury02]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

I think they should get fat and truck defenders like Bettis used to do. Remember when he was so fat defenders couldn't get their arms around him? Those were the days.

I do remember lol. However, defenders just too athletic and speed is trumping girth. Funny how we're going back to seeing speed over power on defense (much like Hamm - although he was pretty freakin powerful enough)

Maybe it would work - maybe they need to see Woodley

Seriously though - the guy is as big as Ziggy Hood. Not good.

[Ricco Suavez]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

I think they should get fat and truck defenders like Bettis used to do. Remember when he was so fat defenders couldn't get their arms around him? Those were the days.

This comment alone proves that you are living in the past. Its a new NFL like it or not. The run is now secondary and until someone can either change the rules or can sign an Adrian Petersen on every team and sign several top notch OLinemen then it is not going to change.