Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2013 Goal: $400.00 - To Date: $00.00 (00.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Steelers Football > Pittsburgh Steelers


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers Steelers - Giants Giants
August 9th, 2014, 7:30pmET

CBS
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-02-2013, 11:47 AM   #51
steelfury02
Wing Kong Exchange - CEO
Supporter
 
steelfury02's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,102
Member Number: 6076
Thanks: 3,523
Thanked 3,444 Times in 1,635 Posts
My Mood: Fine
Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
So why did the 2009 offense rank 12th and those offenses rank worse? That year the offense scored more points than in the following 3 years.

Living by the sword and dying by it seems better than possessing the ball, hoping the defense keeps the team in it, and hoping Ben bails everyone out at the end.
Rankings? Really?

Why exactly? Did he score a lot more points that way? I'm not seeing any history of a lot more points because of it.
__________________

Insanity or In-sahn-naha-teh
is what the the Iro-quois used
meaning "severe personnel problems".
Look it up. No? No, I'm right.
Agree to disagree.
steelfury02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 11:50 AM   #52
GoFor7
Banned
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,353
Member Number: 24211
Thanks: 32
Thanked 94 Times in 75 Posts
Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post
Rankings? Really?

Why exactly? Did he score a lot more points that way? I'm not seeing any history of a lot more points because of it.
The Haley apologists use the rankings to justify his offense this season - "he's ranked one spot higher than Arians' offense! IMPROVEMENT!!!!!!!!"

Can't have it both ways.
GoFor7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 11:52 AM   #53
Ricco Suavez
Head Coach
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,868
Member Number: 7718
Thanks: 96
Thanked 766 Times in 341 Posts
Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post
yes - you can say by record alone that we witnessed the worst TEAM since 2006, but 8-8 isn't a reflection of any one facet or coordinator alone.

If that were the case, Kordell's 13-3 squad was better than the 08 12-4 team. Record isn't any real indication of progress.

The Patriots game is a fine example of the red zone failures. We won, but were 2/5 in the red zone. God awful. It should have been by a larger margin.
I think you have my post confused with someone else, I did not mention records just why I think our Red Zone problems exist. But since you mentioned records I concur the Patriots 16-0 season meant squat without a championship, while the Giants 9-7 last year was enough to get in and win.
Ricco Suavez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 11:53 AM   #54
steelfury02
Wing Kong Exchange - CEO
Supporter
 
steelfury02's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,102
Member Number: 6076
Thanks: 3,523
Thanked 3,444 Times in 1,635 Posts
My Mood: Fine
Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
The Haley apologists use the rankings to justify his offense this season - "he's ranked one spot higher than Arians' offense! IMPROVEMENT!!!!!!!!"

Can't have it both ways.
ok, I'm a Haley apologist - that's fair. Something different seemed a whole lot better than the norm. I'll give it a little more time before I'm ready to boot Haley.
__________________

Insanity or In-sahn-naha-teh
is what the the Iro-quois used
meaning "severe personnel problems".
Look it up. No? No, I'm right.
Agree to disagree.
steelfury02 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to steelfury02 For This Useful Post:
lloydwoodson (01-02-2013)
Old 01-02-2013, 11:54 AM   #55
steelfury02
Wing Kong Exchange - CEO
Supporter
 
steelfury02's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,102
Member Number: 6076
Thanks: 3,523
Thanked 3,444 Times in 1,635 Posts
My Mood: Fine
Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez View Post
I think you have my post confused with someone else, I did not mention records just why I think our Red Zone problems exist. But since you mentioned records I concur the Patriots 16-0 season meant squat without a championship, while the Giants 9-7 last year was enough to get in and win.
it was more or less a response to the 8-8 record meaning our offense was worse.
__________________

Insanity or In-sahn-naha-teh
is what the the Iro-quois used
meaning "severe personnel problems".
Look it up. No? No, I'm right.
Agree to disagree.
steelfury02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 12:03 PM   #56
Ricco Suavez
Head Coach
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,868
Member Number: 7718
Thanks: 96
Thanked 766 Times in 341 Posts
Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post
it was more or less a response to the 8-8 record meaning our offense was worse.
I agree with you there also, 8-8 is worse than last year but we did not score many points either season. Biggest difference is that in the past we have found ways to win close games, (no I am not saying Ben did, I said the team) this year we lost a lot of close games. Bad luck, bad play, miscues, injuries, any and all contributed to this past season. I for one think it can be rectified and not a sign of things to come. I am already anxious for the next season.
Ricco Suavez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 12:11 PM   #57
Edman
Living Legend
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 5,444
Gender: Male
Member Number: 3261
Thanks: 52
Thanked 178 Times in 103 Posts
My Mood: Brooding
Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

"Elite" Ben Roethlisberger in the Arians Offense. Steelers open up the field and the offense for him to let him shine. Ben is the centerpiece. The Steelers are gone from running the ball. These aren't your daddy's Steelers. Ben is the star of this show now.

2007: 65.3% 32 TD. 11 INT. 3124 Yds.

Pretty good right? Well...

2008: 17 TD. 15 INT. 3301 yds
2009*: 26 TD. 12 INT. 4328 yds.
2010: 17 TD. 5 INT. 3200 yds.
2011: 21 TD. 14 INT. 4077 yds.

*- Steelers Miss the Postseason.

Wow. 2007 was the only year Ben was voted to the Pro Bowl. In 2011, he got in only because Brady stepped out. Mediocrity. Thy name is Roethlisberger.

So let's check this out. Five Years in the same vertical passing game offense and Ben has not only failed to improve or match his first year (2007), but has declined considerably. 2008 was the most telling. 2009, the best of those years? The Steelers missed the playoffs. Coincidentally that year the Defense was not on top of their game. The other years, the Steelers Defense was ranked near the best in the league most of these years.

Let's go back further to the Whisenhunt Years. The guy Ben hated so much for supposedly "gimping" him.

2004: 17 TD, 11 INT. 2621 Yds
2005: 17 TD, 9 INT. 2385 Yds.
2006: 18 TD, 23 INT. 3513 Yds.

Not much of a change if you ask me from his production under Arians, minus that lone bright spot in 2007. So what's the difference? More Yards, I guess. We all know what happened in 2006. Motorbike Accident, Appendectomy, Concussion. It affected his play considerably. What does Ben do? He takes it out on Whisenhunt and blames him. He should be blowing these statistics out of the park if Whis was holding him back from greatness, instead blooms for one years and he improves by just a little. Now he throws a bit more Touchdowns per season. Wow. Look out NFL. Ben's been unshackled and he's taking the league by storm!
Edman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Edman For This Useful Post:
plenewken (01-02-2013)
Old 01-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #58
lloydwoodson
Head Coach
 
lloydwoodson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,537
Gender: Male
Member Number: 23495
Thanks: 708
Thanked 403 Times in 272 Posts
Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
The previous 3 three seasons were better than 2012.

As for the 2009 season, the offense ranked 12th. While the offense certainly wasn't blameless, that year was known for the defense blowing 4th quarter leads.

Funny though, because after the 2009 season Artie started getting involved and making more demands about what he wanted to see from the offense - and the offense has been worse ever since. Maybe the organization should have wondered why the defense was blowing 4th quarter leads instead of pretending the offense was the main culprit of that season.
^ This is a complete fabrication!

Haley's offense was 55% in the redzone. The previous 3 offenses were 52%, 50% and 48%. Haley was marginally better but how much do you expect him to improve with the same quarterback?

The top redzone percentages by far belonged to NE, NO, GB all around 70%. WASH was 4th with 60%. So it was NE, NO, GB and then everyone else.

What do NE, NO, GB have in common? You guessed it! Genius offensive coordinators scheming for victory!

NE, NO and GB lead the majority of offensive statistical categories for a reason - they have the best coordinators! Hire those guys!

Good for Artie! He needs to get involved but you're wrong about his input. Artie wants a more conservative offense with a running attack. His patience wore out with Arians' refusal to implement such an offense.

If Haley wants to keep his job he will establish a running game.

2008 was the last year Roethlisberger averaged less than 30 throws per game. 2008 was the last year the Steelers won a superbowl. The only other previous year that Roethlisberger threw more than 30 times per game was 2006 when the Steelers missed the playoffs.

Ben is 55-10 lifetime when he throws fewer than 30 times in a game.

Ben needs to throw more! Ben is too elite for winning!
__________________
Lloydwoodson's Top 5 Posters of All-Time:

1. Teegre 2. Hawaii 5-0 3. Buddha Bus 4. Tony Hipchest 5. Harrison's a Monster
lloydwoodson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 12:18 PM   #59
steelfury02
Wing Kong Exchange - CEO
Supporter
 
steelfury02's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,102
Member Number: 6076
Thanks: 3,523
Thanked 3,444 Times in 1,635 Posts
My Mood: Fine
Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

Quote:
Originally Posted by lloydwoodson View Post
^ This is a complete fabrication!

Haley's offense was 55% in the redzone. The previous 3 offenses were 52%, 50% and 48%. Haley was marginally better but how much do you expect him to improve with the same quarterback?

The top redzone percentages by far belonged to NE, NO, GB all around 70%. WASH was 4th with 60%. So it was NE, NO, GB and then everyone else.

What do NE, NO, GB have in common? You guessed it! Genius offensive coordinators scheming for victory!

NE, NO and GB lead the majority of offensive statistical categories for a reason - they have the best coordinators! Hire those guys!

Good for Artie! He needs to get involved but you're wrong about his input. Artie wants a more conservative offense with a running attack. His patience wore out with Arians' refusal to implement such an offense.

If Haley wants to keep his job he will establish a running game.

2008 was the last year Roethlisberger averaged less than 30 throws per game. 2008 was the last year the Steelers won a superbowl. The only other previous year that Roethlisberger threw more than 30 times per game was 2006 when the Steelers missed the playoffs.

Ben is 55-10 lifetime when he throws fewer than 30 times in a game.

Ben needs to throw more! Ben is too elite for winning!

55-10 when throwing fewer than 30 MIGHT be telling, and I am on a big Ben rip, so I'll ease off the Ben-under-bus pedal a bit - I just want the guy to rise above thinking he knows best, and realize, he could be even better with more minds - not just one that thinks alike!
__________________

Insanity or In-sahn-naha-teh
is what the the Iro-quois used
meaning "severe personnel problems".
Look it up. No? No, I'm right.
Agree to disagree.
steelfury02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 12:18 PM   #60
lloydwoodson
Head Coach
 
lloydwoodson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,537
Gender: Male
Member Number: 23495
Thanks: 708
Thanked 403 Times in 272 Posts
Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edman View Post
"Elite" Ben Roethlisberger in the Arians Offense. Steelers open up the field and the offense for him to let him shine...

2007: 65.3% 32 TD. 11 INT. 3124 Yds.

Seems good right? Well...

2008: 17 TD. 15 INT. 3301 yds
2009*: 26 TD. 12 INT. 4328 yds.
2010: 17 TD. 5 INT. 3200 yds.
2011: 21 TD. 14 INT. 4077 yds.

*- Steelers Miss the Postseason.

2007 was the only year Ben was voted to the Pro Bowl. In 2011, he got in only because Brady stepped out. Mediocrity. Thy name is Roethlisberger.

So let's check this out. Five Years in the same vertical passing game offense and Ben has not only failed to improve or match his first year (2007), but has declined considerably. 2008 was the most telling. 2009, the best of those years? The Steelers missed the playoffs. Coincidentally that year the Defense was not on top of their game. The other years, the Steelers Defense was ranked near the best in the league most of these years.

Let's go back further to the Whisenhunt Years. The guy Ben hated so much for supposedly "gimping" him.

2004: 17 TD, 11 INT. 2621 Yds
2005: 17 TD, 9 INT. 2385 Yds.
2006: 18 TD, 23 INT. 3513 Yds.

Not much of a change if you ask me from his production under Arians, minus that lone bright spot in 2007. So what's the difference? More Yards, I guess. We all know what happened in 2006. Motorbike Accident, Appendectomy, Concussion. It affected his play considerably. What does Ben do? He takes it out on Whisenhunt and blames him. He should be blowing these statistics out of the park if Whis was holding him back from greatness, instead he improves by just a little. Now he throws a bit more Touchdowns per season. Wow. Look out NFL. Ben's been unshackled and he's taking the league by storm!
Ben threw 170 more times in 2006 than he ever had previously. That is why he had much bigger numbers like 1 extra touchdown and 14 extra interceptions.
__________________
Lloydwoodson's Top 5 Posters of All-Time:

1. Teegre 2. Hawaii 5-0 3. Buddha Bus 4. Tony Hipchest 5. Harrison's a Monster
lloydwoodson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts