An Apology to Arians! I Was Wrong!

[Ricco Suavez]

Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson

Why the need to blame coaches for single moments in football?

If O Donnell and Andre Hastings are on the same page and that INT isnt thrown, then "cowher doesnt let them lose that game". Cowher hate is a joke.

O Donnell had some great seasons, so to did Stewart. Dan Marino had some great seasons, but nobody blames his coaches for not getting him a Super Bowl.

Back to the thread. The Colts went from a playoff team in 2010 with Manning, to a bust in 2011 with Curtis Painter and now some are heralding Arians for getting them back to the playoffs with Andrew Luck?? The Colts actually got better in 2 seasons with one of the best QB's in the last 10 years...go figure.

I think you misinterpreted , when I said Cowher let the team loose, I did not mean lose. I simply stated that Cowher got away from his style of play that year and let O'Donnell open up the offense with more of a passing game and not the run as much. I loved Cowher, but i know he had some pretty good stinkers while he was here, and I wonder if he saw how the league was changing and if that played as much in him not returning to the game as anything.

[stiller39]

Whisenhut is available!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez

I think you misinterpreted , when I said Cowher let the team loose, I did not mean lose. I simply stated that Cowher got away from his style of play that year and let O'Donnell open up the offense with more of a passing game and not the run as much. I loved Cowher, but i know he had some pretty good stinkers while he was here, and I wonder if he saw how the league was changing and if that played as much in him not returning to the game as anything.

OK, I think Cowher let Gailey run the offense without too much interference during his tenure. Steelers still ran the ball with Bam Morris and Erric Peagram that SB season, it wasnt all 5 wide and throw it around.

I still love all this Arians credit for Andrew Luck's success with the Colts. Pagano had a solid core of talent there already on a playoff team from 2010. He adds free agents like Cory Redding, Vontae Davis, Zibikowski, Mike McGlynn, Samson Setele and drafts Andrew Luck, Dewayne Allen and Coby Fleener, etc..........good bunch of players.

Andrew Luck is the difference between 11-5 and a 3-13 Colts team. make no mistake about it.

[steelfury02]

Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson

OK, I think Cowher let Gailey run the offense without too much interference during his tenure. Steelers still ran the ball with Bam Morris and Erric Peagram that SB season, it wasnt all 5 wide and throw it around.

I still love all this Arians credit for Andrew Luck's success with the Colts. Pagano had a solid core of talent there already on a playoff team from 2010. He adds free agents like Cory Redding, Vontae Davis, Zibikowski, Mike McGlynn, Samson Setele and drafts Andrew Luck, Dewayne Allen and Coby Fleener, etc..........good bunch of players.

Andrew Luck is the difference between 11-5 and a 3-13 Colts team. make no mistake about it.

yes. as much as I'm hating QBs and crediting OCs, Luck is the difference maker. As is RGIII, as is Russel Wilson.

This is why I said I was done ranting, but in fact, have plenty left for Ben's sake

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Originally Posted by steelfury02

yes. as much as I'm hating QBs and crediting OCs, Luck is the difference maker. As is RGIII, as is Russel Wilson.

This is why I said I was done ranting, but in fact, have plenty left for Ben's sake

I dont get the Ben hate on the board. I have always thought that if the guy was a student of the game like Peyton, Eli, Brady, Matt Ryan and I think Andrew Luck.....he could be so much better.

Ben prefers to play that John Wayne/Brett Favre persona and sling it around, almost hoping for the play to break down, rather than be ruthlessly efficient at reading defenses and progressions.

I think the shoulder/clavicle injury derailed his season. I think again the O line injuries hurt the offensive continuity and the Mendenhall drama hurt us with not having anything but plodders like Redman and Dwyer at the RB position.

Haley's offense was starting to really roll in midseason and then it got shot shot by injuries. The offense is only as good as Ben is and when he was making the quick reads to Heath and the defenses had to honor the run...he was clicking.

I look forward to next year with hopefully a healthy Gilbert, Pouncey, Colon, DeCastro and Adams up front. They can move the pile and keep Ben clean hopefully. Need to get younger at Safety, OLB, ILB.

[steelfury02]

Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson

I dont get the Ben hate on the board. I have always thought that if the guy was a student of the game like Peyton, Eli, Brady, Matt Ryan and I think Andrew Luck.....he could be so much better.

Ben prefers to play that John Wayne/Brett Favre persona and sling it around, almost hoping for the play to break down, rather than be ruthlessly efficient at reading defenses and progressions.

I think the shoulder/clavicle injury derailed his season. I think again the O line injuries hurt the offensive continuity and the Mendenhall drama hurt us with not having anything but plodders like Redman and Dwyer at the RB position.

Haley's offense was starting to really roll in midseason and then it got shot shot by injuries. The offense is only as good as Ben is and when he was making the quick reads to Heath and the defenses had to honor the run...he was clicking.

I look forward to next year with hopefully a healthy Gilbert, Pouncey, Colon, DeCastro and Adams up front. They can move the pile and keep Ben clean hopefully. Need to get younger at Safety, OLB, ILB.

You're right - I do give Ben the benefit of the doubt, the injury obviously rattled his decision making process that seemed to have been improving

If he combined his already-proven toughness and added the "chess-matchness" to his game, he actually could be THE BEST QB EVER, any decade - period. He really has everything you could absolutely want - everything. He needs to harness it. Can you imagine the MVP-like Ben in the first half consistently over the span of the next few years? Unstoppable.

Mark my words: If he makes it work with Haley - he'll at least win 1 more, and will more than likely get his 4th. Can you imagine Manning having Ben's tenacity? It would be nothing the football world has ever witnessed.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Originally Posted by steelfury02

You're right - I do give Ben the benefit of the doubt, the injury obviously rattled his decision making process that seemed to have been improving

If he combined his already-proven toughness and added the "chess-matchness" to his game, he actually could be THE BEST QB EVER, any decade - period. He really has everything you could absolutely want - everything. He needs to harness it. Can you imagine the MVP-like Ben in the first half consistently over the span of the next few years? Unstoppable.

Mark my words: If he makes it work with Haley - he'll at least win 1 more, and will more than likely get his 4th. Can you imagine Manning having Ben's tenacity? It would be nothing the football world has ever witnessed.

Yes, but I think Ben wants to call his own plays and run the offense the way he feels works best for him....all the while not really thinking he needs to be a "student of the game".

If Ben accepts that Haley wants to help him get better and Ben believes that he CAN get better, things will be dangerous. You see how Aaron Rodgers gets ridden by Tom Clements and accepts it as part of improving??? That attitude makes you your best.

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by NSMaster56

Kordell made 2 AFC Championships and Neil made a SB (and how many playoff games did Mike !@#$%^& Tomczak make?!), so...

They certainly did reap some benefits.

Ben's clearly the guy who got the Steelers over the top (TWICE---thank God!), but he has benefitted from a solid situation. It's not unfair to say as such.

That said and as far as comparisons go: he's more Troy Aikman than Joe Flacco.

I made the comparison to Aikman as well. Aikman was much more efficient and precise though with a lot less improvisation. He also had the best offensive line ever.

Roethlisberger has a lot more big play potential than Aikman but I think the idea was that he be that type of player.

Mendenhall would have killed it behind an OL like that. I think the OL is on the right track. I expect good things next year in that dept.

Originally Posted by steelfury02

You're right - I do give Ben the benefit of the doubt, the injury obviously rattled his decision making process that seemed to have been improving

Mark my words: If he makes it work with Haley - he'll at least win 1 more, and will more than likely get his 4th. Can you imagine Manning having Ben's tenacity? It would be nothing the football world has ever witnessed.

Ha! I think you are getting a little carried away but I agree that good things will happen if Ben works with Haley, and swallows his pride at having lost Arians.

The Steelers will be eyeing RBs this draft. Hopefully they grab another good one- just not too early!

[Ricco Suavez]

I think Luck could be in that group of Special Players such as Peyton, Brady, Marino, but lets not crown him after one season. But to my eyes and as a rookie he is special, only solidifies the opinion of nearly every NFL guru before the draft. RGII has put up numbers like no rookie before and consistent too, yet, he has played only one season, lets see how he does in the years to come. i have heard only one or two detractors for RGIII and they both say the same thing and that is the system has been limited and RGIII does not go through his progressions like he should, the Redskin running game (and RGII is part of that ) is one of the best in the league. Example when we played them we stopped the run and while flashes of his game were present he did not do near as much as in other games. Wilson, well what can you say, I wanted the Steelers to draft him if possible,(size be damned, I wanted Flutie too) I had already heard how smart this kid was and I had watched him enough top like what I saw. But lets see what their future has in store.

[steelfury02]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

I made the comparison to Aikman as well. Aikman was much more efficient and precise though with a lot less improvisation. He also had the best offensive line ever.

Roethlisberger has a lot more big play potential than Aikman but I think the idea was that he be that type of player.

Mendenhall would have killed it behind an OL like that. I think the OL is on the right track. I expect good things next year in that dept.



Ha! I think you are getting a little carried away but I agree that good things will happen if Ben works with Haley, and swallows his pride at having lost Arians.

The Steelers will be eyeing RBs this draft. Hopefully they grab another good one- just not too early!

Oh - I'm getting carried away! I just believe Ben needs to challenge himself and accept the line of thinking that he has shown flashes of legendary brilliance on top of his uniqueness (that I believe already has earned him a HOF trip)

Ben + dissecting defenses = it's officially over for the rest of the league. He would be the first QB ever to combine the John Wayne with the Smarts. He is the only one I've ever witnessed doing both in one game. He has the capability to chameleon anything in any given situation. The other guys - they can absolutely eat defenses for breakfast by outsmarting them, but, when the defenses get to them, play over. Ben has the chance to have both. This is why I am so passionate about him evolving.

EDIT: I imagine Ben on the sideline with each and every weapon, dissecting the play, coaching everyone up. He can do it. He doesn't have to rely on John Wayne alone. Imagine a well-oiled scoring machine, and when he has to its - "Vintage Roethlisberger- that's how he made a name for himself" - but not rely so heavily on it.