Cardinals request to interview Todd Haley

[GoFor7]

Originally Posted by steelfury02

Ben was using 10 different targets before he went down - not Marty ball - the reference doesn't apply to the scheme.

Just because you saw a couple games of it used when Ben was out and a few series upon his return doesn't make it an absolute label.

My bad - Marty ball is run, run, pass. The Steelers offense did that only sometimes. Other times it was run, bubble screen, pass. Or run, end-around, pass. Or run, check-down for 1 yd gain, pass.

And they did that when Ben was in. Remember the Denver game? Run, run, pass. How about after Allen's first interception in the Bengals game? Run, run, sack. Because only in Pittsburgh, scoring quickly and not fretting over time of possession is criminal.

[steelfury02]

Originally Posted by GoFor7

My bad - Marty ball is run, run, pass. The Steelers offense did that only sometimes. Other times it was run, bubble screen, pass. Or run, end-around, pass. Or run, check-down for 1 yd gain, pass.

And they did that when Ben was in. Remember the Denver game? Run, run, pass. How about after Allen's first interception in the Bengals game? Run, run, sack. Because only in Pittsburgh, scoring quickly and not fretting over time of possession is criminal.

you mean the marty-ball offense where the 2 TDs in that game were touchdown passes to Wallace and Miller?

You mean the same marty-ball offense where Ben threw 40 times in that same Denver game?

I'll give you the Bengals game - but, maybe because he was throwing terribly and had 2 ints. 14/28. Same with the Denver game. 22/40.

Ben's high flying offense has nothing to lean on - no proof of production - none.

[madtowndrunkard]

Originally Posted by GoFor7

Or maybe they should realize they aren't a team that can pound the ball 40 times a game anymore. Maybe Ben never bought into the system because he was handcuffed until 3rd and long and until the Steelers needed him to bail them out from their own stupidity in the last 2 minutes. Think Brady or Manning would like that if their teams played that same kind of outdated style?

This offense was Marty ball. It was designed to play close to the vest and hope the defense kept the team in it long enough for Ben to pull a miracle out of his ass in the end.

First off... If we tried to run our offense like NE or Denver... Ben would have been killed and we'd probably be no better then a 6-10 team. You seriously think Ben could run the offense that Brady is running? What on earth makes you think Ben can carry an entire offense on his own w/ a NE style offense? What has he ever done to make you think that? If you say won SB's... you are crazy... because those SB rings were not won by Ben.. yea he's a good QB... but he's not Brady or Manning... People need to wake up and smell the coffee... Ben is not in the class of Brady or Manning... they are passers.. Ben is a gamer..hes' tough...he's resilient.... he's not even Brett Favre...(which some of you like to compare him with) To say Ben is like Brett favre is utterly ridiculous.

you cannot just ask Ben to use his arm to win games.. and NOT only because Ben isn't accurate enough or quick enough with his decision making... because our O-line is not good enough to run that offense. Our O-line did start to gel around mid season...and we started to look damn good. Then the injuries happened. Also in case you didn't notice Ben was given the key's to the offense when he returned from injury... he failed miserable. Maybe injuries were a part...but the other part was the cast around him wasn't capable either.

Haley's offense looked pretty damn good early in the season. We didn't score more points under Arians style offense of swing for the fences every time you get the ball. I understand the thinking by Arians actually... when you have a HR hitter like Ben... try to hit HR's.... the problem is NFL defenses can slow that down...and they did. Ben aired it out often but we didn't score points. The Rooney's believe in small ball... Haley believes in that philosophy.. Ben doesn't. Until Ben realizes who he really is.. we'll struggle... if he accepts the philosophy we will win playoff games. It works...especially when you have DL's defense to help.

[Steeler7BR]

Originally Posted by steelfury02

you mean the marty-ball offense where the 2 TDs in that game were touchdown passes to Wallace and Miller?

You mean the same marty-ball offense where Ben threw 40 times in that same Denver game?

I'll give you the Bengals game - but, maybe because he was throwing terribly and had 2 ints. 14/28. Same with the Denver game. 22/40.

Ben's high flying offense has nothing to lean on - no proof of production - none.

Exactally this peace of crap hopefully let HalIey get out of Pittsburgh. Ben is not the problem he was clearly out of rhythm afte his injury but play calling was creepy the whole year. Only good thing Haley did he worked Heath great into his offense but thats about it.

[Steeler7BR]

Originally Posted by madtowndrunkard

First off... If we tried to run our offense like NE or Denver... Ben would have been killed and we'd probably be no better then a 6-10 team. You seriously think Ben could run the offense that Brady is running? What on earth makes you think Ben can carry an entire offense on his own w/ a NE style offense? What has he ever done to make you think that? If you say won SB's... you are crazy... because those SB rings were not won by Ben.. yea he's a good QB... but he's not Brady or Manning... People need to wake up and smell the coffee... Ben is not in the class of Brady or Manning... they are passers.. Ben is a gamer..hes' tough...he's resilient.... he's not even Brett Favre...(which some of you like to compare him with) To say Ben is like Brett favre is utterly ridiculous.

you cannot just ask Ben to use his arm to win games.. and NOT only because Ben isn't accurate enough or quick enough with his decision making... because our O-line is not good enough to run that offense. Our O-line did start to gel around mid season...and we started to look damn good. Then the injuries happened. Also in case you didn't notice Ben was given the key's to the offense when he returned from injury... he failed miserable. Maybe injuries were a part...but the other part was the cast around him wasn't capable either.

Haley's offense looked pretty damn good early in the season. We didn't score more points under Arians style offense of swing for the fences every time you get the ball. I understand the thinking by Arians actually... when you have a HR hitter like Ben... try to hit HR's.... the problem is NFL defenses can slow that down...and they did. Ben aired it out often but we didn't score points. The Rooney's believe in small ball... Haley believes in that philosophy.. Ben doesn't. Until Ben realizes who he really is.. we'll struggle... if he accepts the philosophy we will win playoff games. It works...especially when you have DL's defense to help.

When Ben is at his best with a great offensive line he could be a Brady or a Manning no question. He's that great and it's very sad that even steeler fans don't see that.

[steelfury02]

Originally Posted by Steeler7BR

Exactally this peace of crap hopefully let HalIey get out of Pittsburgh. Ben is not the problem he was clearly out of rhythm afte his injury but play calling was creepy the whole year. Only good thing Haley did he worked Heath great into his offense but thats about it.

I'm not sure what "Exactally this peace of crap hopefully let Halley get out" means

I've acknowledge, he wasn't right upon return. He couldn't even check down or hit some of those beloved bubble screens - very low or very high - def hurt

[GoFor7]

Originally Posted by steelfury02

you mean the marty-ball offense where the 2 TDs in that game were touchdown passes to Wallace and Miller?

You mean the same marty-ball offense where Ben threw 40 times in that same Denver game?

Lol! This was the response after I talked shit on the offense after the Denver game. "40 passes to 26 runs! da stillerz ain't run da ball enough!"

Yo, their running game was snuffed out because of how predictable it was and Ben had to bail the team out on 3rd down and at the end of the game when the defense couldn't stop Peyton. It's not about the number of run or pass attempts, it's about the way they are used.

I'll give you the Bengals game - but, maybe because he was throwing terribly and had 2 ints. 14/28. Same with the Denver game. 22/40.

Which proves he can't bail the team out from their stupidity all the time. Again, you look so much at the run/pass ratio but you fail to consider the circumstances in which the plays are run. The Steelers stubbornly ran on first and second down, which made it easy for Denver's defense to stop. They had to rely on Ben at the end because they had no choice.

Now in contrast, look at how the Broncos ran the ball that day. They were unpredictable in the way they did it, and they used a lot of no-huddle. They weren't pissing their pants over time of possession, nor were they concerned about how football was played in the early 70's.

Ben's high flying offense has nothing to lean on - no proof of production - none.

And Haley's offense has proof.....?

Ben had two super bowls before Haley came along.

I would explain to you that ball control offense don't score many points, but it seems to go in one ear and out the other, so I won't bother.

[lardlad]

Originally Posted by madtowndrunkard

First off... If we tried to run our offense like NE or Denver... Ben would have been killed and we'd probably be no better then a 6-10 team. You seriously think Ben could run the offense that Brady is running? What on earth makes you think Ben can carry an entire offense on his own w/ a NE style offense? What has he ever done to make you think that? If you say won SB's... you are crazy... because those SB rings were not won by Ben.. yea he's a good QB... but he's not Brady or Manning... People need to wake up and smell the coffee... Ben is not in the class of Brady or Manning... they are passers.. Ben is a gamer..hes' tough...he's resilient.... he's not even Brett Favre...(which some of you like to compare him with) To say Ben is like Brett favre is utterly ridiculous.

you cannot just ask Ben to use his arm to win games.. and NOT only because Ben isn't accurate enough or quick enough with his decision making... because our O-line is not good enough to run that offense. Our O-line did start to gel around mid season...and we started to look damn good. Then the injuries happened. Also in case you didn't notice Ben was given the key's to the offense when he returned from injury... he failed miserable. Maybe injuries were a part...but the other part was the cast around him wasn't capable either.

Haley's offense looked pretty damn good early in the season. We didn't score more points under Arians style offense of swing for the fences every time you get the ball. I understand the thinking by Arians actually... when you have a HR hitter like Ben... try to hit HR's.... the problem is NFL defenses can slow that down...and they did. Ben aired it out often but we didn't score points. The Rooney's believe in small ball... Haley believes in that philosophy.. Ben doesn't. Until Ben realizes who he really is.. we'll struggle... if he accepts the philosophy we will win playoff games. It works...especially when you have DL's defense to help.

I think Ben is a little better than you give him credit for, but I think you absolutely nailed it. Especially about the line. He rarely has time to go down field and when he does there were drops or he missed them. If anyone is not happy with the log ball, look at the attempts, I'll bet there were plenty and they only connected on a few.

And yeah Ben cannot play like manning or brady and vice versa.

Where do you get your suspicions on handing the "Keys" over to Ben in the second half of the season? I had the same suspicion but if there is more to it than that, I'd like to see it.

[madtowndrunkard]

I do believe we had more points per game this season then last.... How that's possible is pretty amazing considering we lost Ben for several games this year...and when he returned he was awful. Also considering just how banged up our O-line was this year compared to last.



If Haley sticks around and Ben does a better job running it..... we'll be damn good.

[steelfury02]

Originally Posted by Steeler7BR

When Ben is at his best with a great offensive line he could be a Brady or a Manning no question. He's that great and it's very sad that even steeler fans don't see that.

No I see it - he just won't buy into something other than the idea of him being in control, which, doesn't work.

Those other two guys know when to listen and learn and go from there. Ben portrays that he is above it - hence, plateaued. If Ben progressed, then maybe they would go more no huddle.

Some of the Arians lovers fail to recall that Arians wouldn't let Ben go no-huddle that often either. There is a reason - and Ben, and his receivers, are a main part of that - not enough discipline.