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Old 01-07-2013, 09:58 AM   #41
El-Gonzo Jackson
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Default Re: The DL dilemma

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Originally Posted by Rick5895 View Post
Injuries have been the main cause for our LB's not playing to par the past couple of seasons, meaning sacks and turnovers are down. We need to get younger at LB and maybe replacing harrison is the answer. That all being said, our DL style is 2 gap and these young guys are struggling with that. they need to learn or get better playing that style, if not our pass defense will still be good, (if we can keep our good young corners) but our run D will not.
This defense, even though is aging, has been our strength. But everytime we lose it's the defenses fault, our defense is fine, Lebeau is fine, my only conern with Lebeau staying is we may very well lose Butler.
Rick, I agree that injuries to Harrison and Woodley the past 2 seasons have been impactful to the defense. (Also Polamalu injuries hurt too) I honestly dont see where the "young guys are struggling" with 2-gap style D line play.

The only people struggling with 2-gap D line play are the fans on this forum that dont understand how its played. They see guys in their fantasy football league that have JJ Watt, Geno Atkins, Jared Allen as D linemen with good sack totals, but forget that Von Miller, Aldon Smith, Cam Wake, Elvis Dumerville put up numbers at OLB too. They want out D line to sack the QB, when its not what they do. The most sacks I can see from a 3-4 D lineman this season is Corey Luiget of SD with 7.

I honestly dont see where Hood, Keisel, Heyward, Hampton were so bad this season. they are doing what 3-4 d linemen do.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:30 AM   #42
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Default Re: The DL dilemma

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Rick, I agree that injuries to Harrison and Woodley the past 2 seasons have been impactful to the defense. (Also Polamalu injuries hurt too) I honestly dont see where the "young guys are struggling" with 2-gap style D line play.

The only people struggling with 2-gap D line play are the fans on this forum that dont understand how its played. They see guys in their fantasy football league that have JJ Watt, Geno Atkins, Jared Allen as D linemen with good sack totals, but forget that Von Miller, Aldon Smith, Cam Wake, Elvis Dumerville put up numbers at OLB too. They want out D line to sack the QB, when its not what they do. The most sacks I can see from a 3-4 D lineman this season is Corey Luiget of SD with 7.

I honestly dont see where Hood, Keisel, Heyward, Hampton were so bad this season. they are doing what 3-4 d linemen do.


Brilliant post... couldn't have said it better.

Both of our OLB's were playing hurt. That said I thought Harrison still played at a high level...and near the end he was getting pressure like he used to.

Woodley on the other does worry me a little bit. Mainly because I don't know what was going on with him...but 4 sacks out of Woodley and little to no pressure makes you wonder if that salary he's getting is worth it. We have cap issues next season and Woodley will take the 2nd highest cap hit on the team ( I believe) You can't restructure him...not after this season.

All that said we do need to produce more sacks.. But because of our cap situation and immediate needs elsewhere... I think we will go into next season with what we have on the DL and OLB. We need an ILB... which I expect us to draft in the 1st or 2nd round.

I think next year is do or die for Woodley and Harrison...but no reason we can't deal with that next year.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:50 AM   #43
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Default Re: The DL dilemma

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Rick, I agree that injuries to Harrison and Woodley the past 2 seasons have been impactful to the defense. (Also Polamalu injuries hurt too) I honestly dont see where the "young guys are struggling" with 2-gap style D line play.

The only people struggling with 2-gap D line play are the fans on this forum that dont understand how its played. They see guys in their fantasy football league that have JJ Watt, Geno Atkins, Jared Allen as D linemen with good sack totals, but forget that Von Miller, Aldon Smith, Cam Wake, Elvis Dumerville put up numbers at OLB too. They want out D line to sack the QB, when its not what they do. The most sacks I can see from a 3-4 D lineman this season is Corey Luiget of SD with 7.

I honestly dont see where Hood, Keisel, Heyward, Hampton were so bad this season. they are doing what 3-4 d linemen do.
What about JJ Watt? He is a DE in Houston 3-4 defense
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:57 AM   #44
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Default Re: The DL dilemma

Heyward and McClendon absopositively need to see the field more - time for trial by fire - I believe we are no worse than what we already would be

I look at GB's D-line as a younger, slightly smaller (quicker at point of attack though) D-line that helped them win a SB. I actually think if given a consistent chance - we have two guys in Heyward and McClendon, that while unproven, could end up being just as explosive at point of attack, but even more powerful than what GB has, letting Lebeau (and his/or whoever is running the 3-4) get even more creative where the LBs are blitzing from

Clay Matthews isn't the be-all, end-all, but, from my perspective, isn't having to cover routes quite as often as our guys have to - and, that's because there are places to explode more quickly at the beginning of the play, because of their explosive line - if that makes any sense
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:58 AM   #45
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Default Re: The DL dilemma

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What about JJ Watt? He is a DE in Houston 3-4 defense
Thanks......I honestly thought he played DT on a 4-3 look and DE when they go 3-4 look. It's exactly making my point though of the knee jerk reaction of the Fantasy Football fans screaming for the flavor of the day.

Remember when the Dolphins ran the Wildcat for a season and all the noise on this forum for Dennis Dixon to play the Wildcat, or "draft Pat White"?? Suddenly Ben wasnt good enough on his own.

Now that JJ Watt gets some sacks, but almost no other 3-4 D lineman in the NFL is a sack machine............fans want to cut Keisel, Hood, Fire LeBeau and goto a 4-3. What is next??..............we need a big RB like Bettis?
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:02 AM   #46
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Default Re: The DL dilemma

Anyone who says fire DL is insane in my mind. As for Keisel I love him but I want Heyward starting next season. We can't let a first rounder ride the bence for 3years.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:08 AM   #47
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Default Re: The DL dilemma

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Anyone who says fire DL is insane in my mind. As for Keisel I love him but I want Heyward starting next season. We can't let a first rounder ride the bence for 3years.
Then Heyward needs to prove he is better than Hood or Keisel to get the starting job. Not much different than 2nd round guy like Worilds riding the bench for 3 seasons.........."to be the man, you gotta beat the man!"
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:12 AM   #48
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Default Re: The DL dilemma

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Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
Thanks......I honestly thought he played DT on a 4-3 look and DE when they go 3-4 look. It's exactly making my point though of the knee jerk reaction of the Fantasy Football fans screaming for the flavor of the day.

Remember when the Dolphins ran the Wildcat for a season and all the noise on this forum for Dennis Dixon to play the Wildcat, or "draft Pat White"?? Suddenly Ben wasnt good enough on his own.

Now that JJ Watt gets some sacks, but almost no other 3-4 D lineman in the NFL is a sack machine............fans want to cut Keisel, Hood, Fire LeBeau and goto a 4-3. What is next??..............we need a big RB like Bettis?
For all we know, JJ Watt could be a flash in the pan. Way too soon to anoint their D as the next big thing because of 1 "dominant" season. They are going through a lot of their demons right now like we already have, and will continue to have to, especially (and hopefully) with young blood being relied on more often than ever, ala, Texans still not matching up well against elite offenses, and have yet to prove they can smother WR corps of the NEs and GBs of the world WHILE pressuring forced throws and bringing down the quick release guys on a consistent basis. You can't do one or the other and still win against a big offense - those back shoulder throws will burn any man coverage, as will not getting to the QB fast enough. They haven't proven to do that yet - so, I'm not sold on what has been proven (Steelers D) v. as you say, today's flavor against an abysmal Cincy O.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:40 PM   #49
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Default Re: The DL dilemma

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Then Heyward needs to prove he is better than Hood or Keisel to get the starting job. Not much different than 2nd round guy like Worilds riding the bench for 3 seasons.........."to be the man, you gotta beat the man!"
If they don't play him he can't prove it. Nobody would of known Lewis was as good as he was until he got a chance to play. I remember seeing a lot of posts were people said Lewis was a bust and we needed to drop him before he got his shot this season.
As for Worlds, from his limited playing time I think he needs to start next season as well.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:18 PM   #50
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Default Re: The DL dilemma

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If they don't play him he can't prove it. Nobody would of known Lewis was as good as he was until he got a chance to play. I remember seeing a lot of posts were people said Lewis was a bust and we needed to drop him before he got his shot this season.
As for Worlds, from his limited playing time I think he needs to start next season as well.
I agree that the Steelers should give Worilds a look first. Even though the Steelers pick a OLB (e.g. Mingo, Ansah) this year, the player probably needs at least a year to get into the system. Worilds has shown some promises this season and deserves a chance to prove himself. He will be a FA after next season and the team needs to know if he should be kept. I also hope that the team will give Adrian Robinson some snaps next season. He's my sleeper pick.
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