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Old 01-13-2013, 07:46 PM   #101
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Default Re: The Steelers play scared

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Originally Posted by teegre View Post
They're probably thinking:

"Why can't our skill positions play like that!?!"

Mike Wallace "could" be Torrey Smith.

AB "could" be Wes Weller.

Spinny, Dwyer, & Reggie Noble "could" be just as good as Ronnie Hillman, Stephan Ridley, and Shane Vareen.
Yes, those guys underachieved and it's apart of the Steelers' failure this season. But do these playoff teams look like they're worrying about time of possession? Are they holding back their offenses from "scoring too quickly"?

Some guys gotta step up, but the Steelers need to change their philosophies and start getting the vertical passing game back. Other teams started catching onto the dink-and-dunk and Marty ball stuff and the offense never adjusted.

It's okay to trade some possession time for points.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:49 PM   #102
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Default Re: The Steelers play scared

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Originally Posted by maddog78 View Post
I alluded to this in another thread and want to expound on the point.

Anyway, the Steelers play scared football on both sides of the ball. This has been going on since Cowher and Tomlin has carried the torch.

On offense, get any kind of lead and they pull the plug on offense and go into kill the clock mode. Even when they don't, they play to run and control the clock.

On defense, it's contain, keep everything in front of you, tackle the catch. How many times did we see an opponent pinned inside the five only to turn field position around? Thad Freaking Lewis did it with the Browns in the finale.

The result is a defense that doesn't get sacks or turnovers, which kill drives and set up good field position, and an offense that seems to max out at around 24 points on their best days.

That means every Sunday, no matter the opponent, the game will be in reach in the 4th quarter. In close games, a play or two here or there turns them. Enough of them turn the wrong way, and you're 8-8 instead of 12-4.

This philosophy emanates from the head coach down to the players. With Cowher it was "there's a fine line between winning and losing". With Tomlin, you "have to make significant plays at significant times". He said after the season that the reason dominant teams are dominant is because they find a way to win close games, and the Steelers couldn't do that this year.

A little research found that claim to be bogus. The Steelers won a grand total of 3 games by more than one score, i.e. 9 or more points, none by more than 17. The top three playoff seeds in each conference won no less than 6, some won 9 or 10, often times by 20 or more. They don't pucker up hoping to run out the clock in the 2nd half, they continue to attack and bury teams.

Maybe next year the breaks will go our way and we'll win those close games, but if they don't, Tomlin may be on a very short leash in 2014.
I mostly agree except with Cowher the played to end the game in Q4, while under Tomlin they played not to lose and in a shell and hoped for luck. Tomlin is NOT a good game coach.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:59 PM   #103
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Default Re: The Steelers play scared

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Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
Yes, those guys underachieved and it's apart of the Steelers' failure this season. But do these playoff teams look like they're worrying about time of possession? Are they holding back their offenses from "scoring too quickly"?

Some guys gotta step up, but the Steelers need to change their philosophies and start getting the vertical passing game back. Other teams started catching onto the dink-and-dunk and Marty ball stuff and the offense never adjusted.

It's okay to trade some possession time for points.
You say that Art II was concerned about TOP. When did he ever say that? In his pre-season press conference, he stated that his main goal was to keep his QB upright... which they did. Please, provide a link or cite a reference that says that he was more concerned with TOP that with anything else. Alas, every time that you've posted this, I've asked the same question... and then, you disappear from the thread.

Did he mention that he wants the running game to be better? Yes... because, look at it: it's horrid. Since that declaration, they have drafted three O-linemen in the first two rounds is a step in the right direction... a move which even you can agree with (right???).

Regardless, the bolded part is the difference between play-off teams and the current Steelers. Wes Welker's sideline pass was the epitome of "wanting it." The ball should have been knocked away, but he one-armed it. I can count on my fingers the number of times that the skill player on last year's roster tried even a fourth that hard.

Wallace not dragging his feet and/or not going after balls thrown in his direction. Fumbles by AB... and the RBs. Not getting out of bounds when the clock is winding down. Et cetera.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:17 PM   #104
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Default Re: The Steelers play scared

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You say that Art II was concerned about TOP. When did he ever say that? In his pre-season press conference, he stated that his main goal was to keep his QB upright... which they did. Please, provide a link or cite a reference that says that he was more concerned with TOP that with anything else. Alas, every time that you've posted this, I've asked the same question... and then, you disappear from the thread.
When the WRs, all of them, are only sent 5 to 10 yards beyond the LOS, that's my indication that the Steelers are more concerned about TOP than scoring regardless of what anyone says. When they call run, run, pass after one of the few turnovers the defense gets instead of going to the jugular, that says they're more concerned about TOP.

And Ben wasn't kept upright, he missed 3 weeks.

Quote:
Did he mention that he wants the running game to be better? Yes... because, look at it: it's horrid. Since that declaration, they have drafted three O-linemen in the first two rounds is a step in the right direction... a move which even you can agree with (right???).
The problem is the Steelers are going about it the wrong way. They're definition of fixing the running game is stubbornly calling RUTMs on the first two downs and hope Ben bails them out on 3rd and long. They essentially shut down their own running game by doing that. Also, last week the Packers were able to run the ball effectively against the Vikings because they used a lot of no huddle which tired out the Vikings' front 7.

Perhaps the Steelers should pass more often on first down because a) it's a down where the defense has to respect both the run and the pass, and b) it'll probably result in more manageable third downs.

Quote:
Regardless, the bolded part is the difference between play-off teams and the current Steelers. Wes Welker's sideline pass was the epitome of "wanting it." The ball should have been knocked away, but he one-armed it. I can count on my fingers the number of times that the skill player on last year's roster tried even a fourth that hard.

Wallace not dragging his feet and/or not going after balls thrown in his direction. Fumbles by AB... and the RBs. Not getting out of bounds when the clock is winding down. Et cetera.
I acknowledge that the WRs never made the difficult catches (or the easy ones) for much of this season. However, the Steelers also have to realize that this ball control offense isn't putting up points. Like I said before, only two playoff teams were in the top 5 in TOP, and both of them were eliminated today (Houston and Seattle). Trade some TOP for points.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:44 PM   #105
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Default Re: The Steelers play scared

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Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
When the WRs, all of them, are only sent 5 to 10 yards beyond the LOS, that's my indication that the Steelers are more concerned about TOP than scoring regardless of what anyone says. When they call run, run, pass after one of the few turnovers the defense gets instead of going to the jugular, that says they're more concerned about TOP.

And Ben wasn't kept upright, he missed 3 weeks.



The problem is the Steelers are going about it the wrong way. They're definition of fixing the running game is stubbornly calling RUTMs on the first two downs and hope Ben bails them out on 3rd and long. They essentially shut down their own running game by doing that. Also, last week the Packers were able to run the ball effectively against the Vikings because they used a lot of no huddle which tired out the Vikings' front 7.

Perhaps the Steelers should pass more often on first down because a) it's a down where the defense has to respect both the run and the pass, and b) it'll probably result in more manageable third downs.



I acknowledge that the WRs never made the difficult catches (or the easy ones) for much of this season. However, the Steelers also have to realize that this ball control offense isn't putting up points. Like I said before, only two playoff teams were in the top 5 in TOP, and both of them were eliminated today (Houston and Seattle). Trade some TOP for points.
1. TOP
Ah, your opinion. Just clarifying that it is merely your opinion. Thanks, once again.

2. INJURY
injuries can happen on any given play. Ergo, limited the number of sacks, reduces the chances for injury. The sacks were down. Period.

3. RUTM
Greg Cosell said that the correct plays were called, but that the injuries to the O-line reduced the execution. Furthermore, he stated that prior the the O-line collapse, the offense was heading upwards (not significantly, but upwards). The NYGiants game was an example of the healthy O-line running well. BUT, obviously, as the Cosell thread proved: your OPINION is more valuable than the analysis of an unbiased analyst with thrifty years of film study under his belt.

4. PLAY-CALLING
Likewise, Trent Dilfer has stated that the Steelers have called the right plays, but due to execution (or lack thereof), many of those drives resulted in FGs (or even turnovers) instead of TDs. BUT, again, obviously your OPINION is obviously more accurate than ESPN's top analyst.

5. YAWN
Yet another reference to Marty-ball. At least you never give up on your opinions. I'll give you that much. It could be raining, and you'd throw down an umbrella. Kudos for sticking to your guns... albeit, rain-soaked guns.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:27 PM   #106
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Default Re: The Steelers play scared

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Originally Posted by teegre View Post
1. TOP
Ah, your opinion. Just clarifying that it is merely your opinion. Thanks, once again.

2. INJURY
injuries can happen on any given play. Ergo, limited the number of sacks, reduces the chances for injury. The sacks were down. Period.

3. RUTM
Greg Cosell said that the correct plays were called, but that the injuries to the O-line reduced the execution. Furthermore, he stated that prior the the O-line collapse, the offense was heading upwards (not significantly, but upwards). The NYGiants game was an example of the healthy O-line running well. BUT, obviously, as the Cosell thread proved: your OPINION is more valuable than the analysis of an unbiased analyst with thrifty years of film study under his belt.

4. PLAY-CALLING
Likewise, Trent Dilfer has stated that the Steelers have called the right plays, but due to execution (or lack thereof), many of those drives resulted in FGs (or even turnovers) instead of TDs. BUT, again, obviously your OPINION is obviously more accurate than ESPN's top analyst.

5. YAWN
Yet another reference to Marty-ball. At least you never give up on your opinions. I'll give you that much. It could be raining, and you'd throw down an umbrella. Kudos for sticking to your guns... albeit, rain-soaked guns.
Don't be pissed off when the offense doesn't score many points then.

I guess if Cossel says the sky is green then the sky is green.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:37 PM   #107
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Default Re: The Steelers play scared

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Don't be pissed off when the offense doesn't score many points then.

I guess if Cossel says the sky is green then the sky is green.
I was happy with the offense, prior to the injury. They were 6-3, and BB was an MVP candidate. If they make two more short completions (in the Oakland & the Tennessee game), they are 8-1. That said, as many of us have said, and as Trent Dilfer said, getting "7 instead of 3" is the next step. Not getting sacked out of FG is step one; going from FG to TD is step two. I saw progress... hence, I was & am happy.

At the north pole, at times the sky is indeed green. Thanks for clarifying that Cosell knows more about football than the rest of us.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:20 PM   #108
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Default Re: The Steelers play scared

I don't want to take away from the debate you two are having, but I'll throw my one liner in here.

Prior to Ben's injury, the Steelers were rolling. The defense was starting to click and Ben was indeed playing like a legitimate MVP candidate. Then, we lost him to fucking Kansas City, but I digress.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:33 PM   #109
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Default Re: The Steelers play scared

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Ben was a complete NON FACTOR in XLIII until the very end. That final drive really clouded the minds of how mediocre he played that day.
The first drive he marched right down the field to the 1 but our shit OL mixed with a shit run game wasn't able to punch it in.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:35 PM   #110
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Default Re: The Steelers play scared

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I don't want to take away from the debate you two are having, but I'll throw my one liner in here.

Prior to Ben's injury, the Steelers were rolling. The defense was starting to click and Ben was indeed playing like a legitimate MVP candidate. Then, we lost him to fucking Kansas City, but I digress.
I agree. This team was putting it together, we got through some pretty big injuries, but couldn't overcome Ben going down. That and the running game suffering from injuries by the end of the season, and this offense went nowhere.
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