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Old 01-16-2013, 09:10 AM   #21
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Default Re: Compensatory picks

Jarvis Jones injury concern are not that big of a deal to pass him up... So you get a top pass rusher for 6 or so years , that's completely fine with me

He is wayyyy more talented than anybody else in the draft , just watch the kid play, you know he's on the field and he makes sure you know he's on the field , Teams scheme on him all day and still can't stop him and that's with not having another Pass Rusher on the other side... Now imagine him having Woodley on the other side so they can't just scheme on Jones
No other Pass rusher in this draft can hold his jockstrap ... there is absolutely no way I pass him up to pick Jordan at 17

Damontre Moore is good if you're seriously concerened about Jarvis health issues (which I'm not) but I question if Moore can play in Space as a OLB

about Lockel being the best LT in a decade or what not, they say that every year. Just last year Decastro was supposed to be the best OG in a decade. Now Warmack is supposed to be the best OG in how many years . Every year this is said

And oh yeah this is not a deep year for Pass Rushers , plus there won't be no Pass rushers left at 17... Pass rushers don't last long at all...only one that might last now would be Jordan since he's having surgery but I doubt it

Of course this is all hypothetical anyway and don't really matter , But I can see Jarvis dropping a little because of his Health issues , that's why I'm mad they won the Last Browns game , dropped from I think having the 11th or 12th pick to 17th...
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:24 AM   #22
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Default Re: Compensatory picks

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Originally Posted by teegre View Post
I've been dealing with a toddler with the flu... so, I'm only half-awake while reading.

I look forward to your post tomorrow.
that is hardcore parenting and Steeler devotion at the same time. I salute you teegre
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:32 AM   #23
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Default Re: Compensatory picks

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Originally Posted by WokeUpWithaWoodley View Post
This is from steelers depot a highly respectable and knowledgeable site for the steelers


In the long run I feel most teams will view him more as a 4-3 defensive end than an outside linebacker prospect. In my tape study I have a hard time envisioning him playing the 3, 4 or the 5 technique in a 3-4 defense. In my opinion he would best fit a team that uses a wide-9 defensive front.

Heres the whole article http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/01...jordan-oregon/
I find it's interesting that Dave Bryan is not high on both Dion Jordan and Mingo. Wonder what's his favorite pick going to be.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: Compensatory picks

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Originally Posted by teegre View Post
Let's just say (hypothetically speaking) you had ANY pick in this draft (i.e. the Chiefs took Wallace & thus the Steelers had the #1 overall pick). Who would you take?

[Don't trade the pick... I'll let you respond, before I respond.]

Lastly, last year, if he had been taken by a team in the mid-20s, the obvious answer was Donta' Hightower.
tbh i would trade the pick for more picks, since there isn't a worthy #1 pick for our positions of most need, but since I'm not allowed to answer that....

I'd have to say Luke Joeckel. Starks has been great, but he won't be playing for the vet minimum any more after these past 2 seasons. Add to the fact he's not getting any younger.

Neither Gilbert or Adams proven they can handle LT duties for the year, so if starks goes? who replaces him? Why not take the best LT prospect in the draft. Let gilbert and adams fight over the remaining spot, and whoever loses should at least be a very serviceable swing tackle. Yeah we'd have higher needs in places like Safety, ILB, RB, but if you get the #1 pick, take the best player on board

last year I would have picked hightower as well, but nobody expected decastro to fall that far, that was a no brainer pick haha
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: Compensatory picks

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Originally Posted by Fire Arians View Post
tbh i would trade the pick for more picks, since there isn't a worthy #1 pick for our positions of most need, but since I'm not allowed to answer that....

I'd have to say Luke Joeckel. Starks has been great, but he won't be playing for the vet minimum any more after these past 2 seasons. Add to the fact he's not getting any younger.

Neither Gilbert or Adams proven they can handle LT duties for the year, so if starks goes? who replaces him? Why not take the best LT prospect in the draft. Let gilbert and adams fight over the remaining spot, and whoever loses should at least be a very serviceable swing tackle. Yeah we'd have higher needs in places like Safety, ILB, RB, but if you get the #1 pick, take the best player on board

last year I would have picked hightower as well, but nobody expected decastro to fall that far, that was a no brainer pick haha
I was thinking that too... but, then I thought about this:

McClendon versus Gilbert/Adams

Gilbert & Adams look like they could be a starting tandem of tackles. Or not. Likewise, with McClendon: what do we really know about him? Which position will pan out??? Decision, decisison. SUMMATION: In my mind, one of the two tackles (Gilbert or Adams) WILL pan out as the future LT... whereas, McClendon is a huge mystery.

Thus, I opted for the NT.

Plus, that NT is really special.

TRADING DOWN
This is NOT the year to have a top-ten pick. There are a few great players, but no one like Luck or AJ Green. Having two picks in the teens/twenties, now THAT is what everyone should want. The "second tier" in this draft is a) not much lower than the first tier,a nd b) this second tier is deeeep.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:46 PM   #26
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Default Re: Compensatory picks

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that is hardcore parenting and Steeler devotion at the same time. I salute you teegre
LOL Thanks, man.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:36 PM   #27
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Default Re: Compensatory picks

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Interesting.

For me, it is not simple. I went through each top-rated player, and via deductive reasoning, eliminated until I was left with my answer.

Dee Milliner: While he is the top-rated CB in this draft, he would be the second (or third) CB in some drafts. He's good, but not Champ Bailey good. Plus, Cortez & Keenan are the future. Not needed. NO.

Jarvis Jones/DeMontre Moore: This is where I had to stop for a second. An elite pass-rusher is key to the 3-4. But, with that said, at 17, there would still be a ton of OLB on the board. Ergo, playing the odds, the two pass-rushers are passed upon. NO.

Luke Joeckel: Here is where I had the most trouble. If he played LT, then the Steelers are set for a while:
Joeckel - Gilbert - Pouncey - DD - Adams
BUT, is Joeckel of the Joe Adams & Orlando Pace ilk... no. Thus, I'd rather fill another need, and see if Gilbert pans out at LT. A hesitant NO.

Star Lotulelei: I know that I'm going to hear it about this one, but Star is a once every five years type of NT. Sure, McClendon could be the future and Ta'amu might not go to jail, but while I am hesitant to take a NT at 17 (I do not see them as being anything special), Star is in a class of his own. The 3-4 is predicated on the NT. Casey Hampton came in and turned a defense that was struggling into the best defense in the league; Star would do exactly the same. Ergo, he is my pick at #1.

...followed by Matt Elam at 17.
I'm with you on the first three guys. Dee Milliner has shown great potential and has made tremendous plays, but he's also shown that he has serious lapses in judgment and makes ridiculous plays at times. That, to me, doesn't scream number one pick in a draft.

I used the exact same logic you used for Moore and Jones. If Jordan and/or Mingo is on the board at 17, we don't need two pass rushers. If we did go with Moore at number one, we could be free to take Elam or Vaccarro at 17. But, ultimately, I decided that wasn't the way to go.

I'm with you on Star. He's a freak. He's a more athletic, less strong Dontari Poe, but ultimately a much more intriguing prospect and a better overall player - by a fairly considerable margin. Here's the thing, though - he's not a 3-4 NT. When he plays against better offensive lines in the NFL, I think he could be shut down a lot easier than what people think. To me, he projects as a 3-4 DE that can stuff the run but also man-handle and disrupt an entire offensive line when he's put one-on-one with a blocker. When he was doubled in college, he disappeared and that's my biggest problem with him. I'd have to take him to be as our starting LDE playing across Heyward but ultimately, not as our starting NT. If I do take Star at number one, then I'm going Jesse Williams out of Alabama at 17. We could take an OLB in the second round or wait until next year to grab Mosley, but having our line look like ...

??? (ROLB) - Heyward - Williams - Lotulelei - Woodley

... would be ridiculous. We're looking at the best 3-4 DL in the NFL with those 3 on it and combined with the possibility that Woodley and Mosley could be playing on the outside was just the cherry on top.

I had to go Joeckel. I disagree with you on how good of a prospect this kid is - he's much, much more impressive than Kalil was and is probably going to be the best OT in the NFL in only a few years. If he's on our line with Pouncey and DeCastro, then Ben would have absolutely all day to throw. Throw Gilbert at LG and keep Adams at RT, and our line is set for a decade. I just couldn't move past Joeckel and DeCastro playing on the same line. The two best offensive line prospects in a decade playing on the same line was just too good and too intriguing to pass up.

Last edited by SteelersCanada; 01-16-2013 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:09 AM   #28
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Default Re: Compensatory picks

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I'm with you on the first three guys. Dee Milliner has shown great potential and has made tremendous plays, but he's also shown that he has serious lapses in judgment and makes ridiculous plays at times. That, to me, doesn't scream number one pick in a draft.

I used the exact same logic you used for Moore and Jones. If Jordan and/or Mingo is on the board at 17, we don't need two pass rushers. If we did go with Moore at number one, we could be free to take Elam or Vaccarro at 17. But, ultimately, I decided that wasn't the way to go.

I'm with you on Star. He's a freak. He's a more athletic, less strong Dontari Poe, but ultimately a much more intriguing prospect and a better overall player - by a fairly considerable margin. Here's the thing, though - he's not a 3-4 NT. When he plays against better offensive lines in the NFL, I think he could be shut down a lot easier than what people think. To me, he projects as a 3-4 DE that can stuff the run but also man-handle and disrupt an entire offensive line when he's put one-on-one with a blocker. When he was doubled in college, he disappeared and that's my biggest problem with him. I'd have to take him to be as our starting LDE playing across Heyward but ultimately, not as our starting NT. If I do take Star at number one, then I'm going Jesse Williams out of Alabama at 17. We could take an OLB in the second round or wait until next year to grab Mosley, but having our line look like ...

??? (ROLB) - Heyward - Williams - Lotulelei - Woodley

... would be ridiculous. We're looking at the best 3-4 DL in the NFL with those 3 on it and combined with the possibility that Woodley and Mosley could be playing on the outside was just the cherry on top.

I had to go Joeckel. I disagree with you on how good of a prospect this kid is - he's much, much more impressive than Kalil was and is probably going to be the best OT in the NFL in only a few years. If he's on our line with Pouncey and DeCastro, then Ben would have absolutely all day to throw. Throw Gilbert at LG and keep Adams at RT, and our line is set for a decade. I just couldn't move past Joeckel and DeCastro playing on the same line. The two best offensive line prospects in a decade playing on the same line was just too good and too intriguing to pass up.
As always, very sound & logical.

Speaking of Jesse Williams, did you see Hawaii's suggested mock: trading back for Elam... and with the extra pick, getting Jesse Williams.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:45 AM   #29
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Default Re: Compensatory picks

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Originally Posted by WokeUpWithaWoodley View Post
This is from steelers depot a highly respectable and knowledgeable site for the steelers


In the long run I feel most teams will view him more as a 4-3 defensive end than an outside linebacker prospect. In my tape study I have a hard time envisioning him playing the 3, 4 or the 5 technique in a 3-4 defense. In my opinion he would best fit a team that uses a wide-9 defensive front.

Heres the whole article http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/01...jordan-oregon/
I am the guy to whom Steelers Canada was referring. I posted my opinion in another thread and said the exact same thing as Steelers Depot- that Jordan is a 4-3 DE best suited to pass rush, and who played in a Wide 9 style defense.

The part that I am most critical of Jordan for is the bit that says "has a tendency to dance around blockers rather than take them straight on."

Jordan is a converted offensive player. He played TE in college before switching. His defensive coordinator at OU was a former offensive player and coach who designed offense-like schemes to isolate Jordan on the edge. If you want to spend a 1st round pick on a 3rd down speed rusher then Jordan is your guy. If you want an every down OLB who can't be blocked by WRs you will have to look somewhere else. It isn't about strength- any human being can become vastly stronger with proper training- it is about mentality.

Jordan will never be a Steeler. So it is a moot point.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:35 AM   #30
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Default Re: Compensatory picks

Jordan is stronger than what he's given credit for. He needs size - no one is arguing that. He's fast and agile and with his speed, he doesn't need to take on blockers directly with his speed. He can blow by tackles at the NFL level and the RB will be forced to chip.

He has the size to play 3-4 OLB but not a 4-3 DE. He's only 240-ish pounds which is small for a pass rusher in that scheme, even if it's as a third down specialist. He's more comparable to Aldon Smith than someone like JPP, and Aldon Smith lacks elite strength and size, but uses his speed and agility to take on blockers one-on-one. Now, that being said, he's stronger than Jordan but that ties into the original point of yes, he does need to put on size and will this offseason.
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