Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses

[FanSince72]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

I know I am going to get killed for this but if you look at history, Dick Lebeau's defenses are not championship defenses. (Steel Curtain, Doomsday, 85 Bears, Bellicheck from the Giants and early Pat Years, 2000 Ravens).

Sure, he has 2 Super Bowl wins but for top regular season ranked defenses, none were dominant playoff/Super Bowl defenses. in fact you can go back to when he was the D Coordinator for the bengals.

The Steelers defense was helped a ton in Super Bowl 40 by documented poor officiating. Not saying we would have lost but Seattle would have made a better run of it.

Big Ben bailed out the defense in Super Bowl 43.

Packers had their way in Super Bowl 45.

Plus the 49ers were able to come back on his defense when he was in Cincy.

My point is, I am sick of the high regular season rankings and come playoffs whenever we play a high powered offense we can't stop them. In fact, Tebow tore this defense to shreds.

That being said, I think its time to go in a new direction. Add the fact his defenses are impossible for young players to grasp for 2-3 years, I dont see this changing.

I must rather see a 4-3 being run by a innovative young DC or a new style 3-4 in hopes to get us back to where we need quicker. As much as our offense was the problem in 2012, with Ben that can be fixed quick. The defense with its age and under-developing young players is going to continue to not pressure the qb, not creat turnovers, give up leads to lesser teams for a while.

My biggest problem with LeBeau defenses is not that they aren't good, but that they're not dynamic.

Today's really good defenses are able to morph into whatever is necessary to counter another team's offense and most can do so within a few series. But LeBeau seems to set up a defense as a sort of "One-Size-Fits-All" crew and he thinks that minor adjustments will be all that's necessary if the basic package isn't working.

I think that's an old-fashioned way of looking at it because today's game happens much faster and offenses are showing more diversity. The better teams seem to arrive on game day with more than just a single game plan and are not afraid of changing gears in mid game and it takes more than a few "adjustments" to compete against such diversity. Often it's required to tear up a game plan and install a significantly different one and LeBeau doesn't seem to have the ability or desire to do that.

[Steelers5895]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

So 5895... this post isn't going so well for you. How is your post about rooting for the Ravens going? Or the one about possibly obtaining Demarcus Ware from the Cowboys going?

anyone who thinks our defenses are GREAT are homers. The 93-95 Steelers defenses were great compared to this run we had.

GREAT defenses, CHAMPIONSHIP defenses make up for turnovers, etc.

When we start thinking about great championship defenses no one thinks of the Lebeau defenses. They are NEVER in the conversation.

So if that is the case, why do we insist on keeping this complicated, unfriendly to rookie defensive scheme?

as for the insults, typical of a newbie Steeler fan, can't take debate, needs to do exactly the childish thing you did.

grow up.

[teegre]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

anyone who thinks our defenses are GREAT are homers. The 93-95 Steelers defenses were great compared to this run we had.

GREAT defenses, CHAMPIONSHIP defenses make up for turnovers, etc.

When we start thinking about great championship defenses no one thinks of the Lebeau defenses. They are NEVER in the conversation.

So if that is the case, why do we insist on keeping this complicated, unfriendly to rookie defensive scheme?

as for the insults, typical of a newbie Steeler fan, can't take debate, needs to do exactly the childish thing you did.

grow up.

Wait... the 93-95 teams were championship defenses.

Championship defenses.

CHAMPIONSHIP defenses.

You do know that actually winning the SuperBowl is what constitutes a "championship."

[Steelers5895]

What you are mising is yes the Steelers won the championships but NOT because anything special our defense did.

[Steelers5895]

Originally Posted by teegre

Wait... the 93-95 teams were championship defenses.

Championship defenses.

CHAMPIONSHIP defenses.

You do know that actually winning the SuperBowl is what constitutes a "championship."

Read the post, I said GREAT in 93-95, not championship.

wow, you guys will post anything to discount anything anyone says against our beloved defenses. comical, learn to read, not selectively either.

[VaDave]

LeBeau makes plenty of on field adjustments. Ever notice how many times our opponent's 1st drive is fairly successful, but then nothing much happens afterwards??

One LeBeau's D is not, never has been, a shut down defense. In order to have a "Shut Down Defense" you have to take on more risk of giving up a big play. I'm sure this is going to impress you, but the fact is, when averaged out over the course of a season, his system works, as dull as it is.

Actually, I find that his defense is dynamic, but make no mistake, he is more than willing to give up ground, on exactly those kind of plays that make us think his D is not so hot, to acheive a better end result.

Think of it like this, it doesn't make sense to win the battle, if it causes you to lose the war.

Part of the problem we were having with the lack of dynamic plays, was Harrison ( clearly not the James Harrison of 2006-2009 even though the number is the same), and Hoaf-a-Loaf Woodley @ 30lbs overweight, with a bad hammie, were not generating much pocket pressure.

The other issue is when your all world safety ,is out for 6 games or so, and you are forced to play a couple of kids off the street, you have no choice but to play even more conservatively. That too effected our turnover ratio profoundly.

[VaDave]

Let me also add that over the last ten years, Goodell has outlawed defense. Lloyd would have been permanently banned from the league if he played now. I also don't see any Rod Woodsons on the team either....

[VaDave]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

What you are mising is yes the Steelers won the championships but NOT because anything special our defense did.

That is totally absurd statement. "ANYTHING??? Nothing at all??? Are you serious?

[teegre]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

Read the post, I said GREAT in 93-95, not championship.

wow, you guys will post anything to discount anything anyone says against our beloved defenses. comical, learn to read, not selectively either.

Exactly. The 93-95 defenses did not win championships; the 2005 & 2008 defenses did. Thank you for finally getting the point.

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

What you are mising is yes the Steelers won the championships but NOT because anything special our defense did.

No you're right- the top ranked defenses in 2005 and 2008 that allowed 16.1 and 13.9 points per game had nothing to do with the Steelers success.

And a 100 yard int return for a TD in the superbowl by Harrison and a 40 yard int return for a TD by Polamalu in the AFC Championship in 2008 weren't anything special.

Who won the Superbowls then? Ben? By himself? Throwing for 1 TD and 3 INTs in his 2 superbowl wins? I know you're a Roethlisberger homer- your kind always is- I just want to hear you say it.