Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses

[madtowndrunkard]

Originally Posted by WokeUpWithaWoodley

Harrison play wasn't because of a great play call by dick or scheme but the opposite it was caused by a great play with very good instincts. He was supposed to rush that play but instead checked himself out of that and drop back to cover the slant. And that great player will be gone this year or next.

Get your facts straight... the play is designed for Harrison to read and make the call on his own. He made the right call. Which brings up another point... that play never happens if we were playing a 4-3.

It's really laughable that people are blaming the defense for lack of success...not only that but giving credit to the offense when we did have success....

Does anyone even realize that we've had more success then probably 30 other teams in the league the past 10 years? And during those 10 years it was DL's defense that kept us competitive and carried us.

As for Ben's wonderful ability to get it done late in the 4th quarter... yea that was great when he did it.... but that still says nothing to the fact that our Ben lead offenses for the most part have struggled to score points at a rate any higher then the league average.

I love Ben's toughness and I credit him for his great play when the games on the line (usually in a 17 to 13 kinda game.) but you win by scoring points... who's at fault when you lose a game 13-10? or 20-14 ? How often does our offense score more then 21 points? How often does our defense hold the opponents to under 21 points? I'm sure if you look at the last 10 years it's not even close. It's no secret the defense is and has been for some time, the back bone of this team.

BTW Ben lost his magic this past season with the game on the line. Did he pull out a single game we should have lost this season? I don't recall Ben stepping up this season and winning games for us... if he did I'm sure it was very early in the season.

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by ricardisimo

I enjoy debate for the sake of debate, but what exactly is the point of the Lebeau bashing? His defense are not championship defenses, except of course the three AFC Championship defenses he headed. I don't get it.

It isn't debate as much as the OP was being a Roethlisberger apologist. All of these "Fire the coordinator" threads, the "Ben needs a tall WR" threads, "This defense/Tomlin/player sucks" threads are all in their own way apologies for Ben. The common theme is "Ben is the best quarterback the Steelers have ever had! If Ben doesn't win the team let him down! It is everyone's fault but Ben!"

It reminds me of the Leon commercials. "Football is a team game and Leon (Ben) can't do everything."

[YOUTUBE]3BkIh1R5utY[/YOUTUBE]

"That pick Ben threw in OT vs the Cowboys wouldn't have mattered if Wallace had tackled him at the Steelers 35 and then the defense held them to 0 yards forcing an indoor 50 yard field goal and then blocking that field goal! These guys need to help Ben! Ben can't do everything!"

5895 pointed to the Steelers second game vs Bengals where they allowed 6 points of an example of the defense failing in the 4th quarter because they gave up the game-winning field goal... and I'm fairly certain he was serious.

[WokeUpWithaWoodley]

Originally Posted by madtowndrunkard

Get your facts straight... the play is designed for Harrison to read and make the call on his own. He made the right call. Which brings up another point... that play never happens if we were playing a 4-3.

It's really laughable that people are blaming the defense for lack of success...not only that but giving credit to the offense when we did have success....

Does anyone even realize that we've had more success then probably 30 other teams in the league the past 10 years? And during those 10 years it was DL's defense that kept us competitive and carried us.

Ummmmm get ur facts straight.

By ALAN ROBINSONAP Sports WriterLATROBE, Pa. —One of the greatest plays in Super Bowl history apparently resulted from Steelers linebacker James Harrison's guess work, not the Pittsburgh coaches' game plan.Harrison revealed while reporting to training camp on Friday that he didn't follow his coaches' orders on his 100-yard interception return touchdown that ended the first half against Arizona on Feb. 1 and has quickly become one of the signature plays in any Super Bowl.Harrison's return of Kurt Warner's pass over the middle intended for Anquan Bolden gave the Steelers a 17-7 halftime lead. They went on to win 27-23 on Ben Roethlisberger's last-minute touchdown pass to Santonio Holmes.If the Cardinals had scored on the first-and-goal play from the Pittsburgh 2, they likely would have led 14-10 at the half and would have owned the momentum."I actually wasn't supposed to drop on that play, I was supposed to blitz," Harrison said Friday. "All night, we were a step late. We had an all-out blitz and I figured if I stepped (out) I could hold my tackle ... (then) I would drop off and they would have to do a quick slant."Harrison guessed correctly, stepped in front of Warner's pass and took off down the sideline.The first half clock would have expired if he had been tackled in-bounds, but Harrison shoved the ball across the goal line as Cardinals receiver Larry Fitzgerald pulled him to the turf.Harrison joked it "took me two weeks to catch my breath after that play."Harrison said Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau never questioned why he gambled."Technique, opportunity and all that other stuff met (on that play) - and a little bit of luck," Harrison said. "Sometimes you just feel that might be the play that does it. I guess coach LeBeau didn't mind it too much."Harrison, the NFL Defensive Player of the Year last season, often is a contrarian known for doing things his way, and he did so again Friday. While his teammates mostly piled out of large SUVs or pickup trucks, he pulled up to camp in a Smart car that was only slightly larger than Steelers nose tackle Casey Hampton.
http://seattletimes.com/html/sports/...erception.html

[FanSince72]

Originally Posted by ricardisimo

I enjoy debate for the sake of debate, but what exactly is the point of the Lebeau bashing? His defense are not championship defenses, except of course the three AFC Championship defenses he headed. I don't get it.

I wonder if it's for the same reasons that Arians gets bashed as an OC despite a five-year winning record and two SB appearances?

[maddog78]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

and after that play they should have shut it down like a great championship defense should. Arizona was demorilzed and it was a huge swing and in half 2 Arizona came back, took the league on long drives and long plays. Not to mention up until that play Arizona drove the field.

Great is what Steelers want to believe. Reality its not.

Yeah, that was a great play by James who admittedly freelanced on the play. LeBeau's defense had a 13-point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl and blew it.

[lipps83]

Originally Posted by madtowndrunkard

Get your facts straight... the play is designed for Harrison to read and make the call on his own. He made the right call. Which brings up another point... that play never happens if we were playing a 4-3. great when he did it.... but that still says nothing to the fact that our Ben lead offenses for the most part have struggled to score points at a rate any higher then the league average.

Originally Posted by WokeUpWithaWoodley

Ummmmm get ur facts straight.

By ALAN ROBINSONAP Sports WriterLATROBE, Pa. —[B]One of the greatest plays in Super Bowl history apparently resulted from Steelers linebacker James Harrison's guess work, not the Pittsburgh coaches' game plan.Harrison revealed while reporting to training camp on Friday that he didn't follow his coaches' orders on his 100-yard interception return touchdown that ended the first half against Arizona on Feb. 1 and has quickly become one of the signature plays in any Super Bowl.

Geee, who to side with? A poster on a message board stating he knows the facts, or the words from a player that actually made the play.

Hmmmm

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by maddog78

Yeah, that was a great play by James who admittedly freelanced on the play. LeBeau's defense had a 13-point 2nd half lead in the Super Bowl and blew it.

Let's look at what the offense did in the 4th quarter. Did they move the chains and eat time off the clock to put the game out of reach? Nope. If you look at what the offense did in the 4th quarter you would see they went 3 and out 3 times. Well, that's a sure way to let another team back in the game. The Cards had 5 possessions in the 4th.

If Justin Hartwig had not been called for holding in the end zone the Cardinals would never have gotten the ball back. Roethlisberger made a 19 yard throw to Holmes from his own end zone with 3 minutes left which was a thing of beauty. If that hold never happens the Cardinals finish the game with 14 points - and the Steelers defense got 7 back themselves. Ultimately the Cardinals should have been held to 7 net points by the Steelers D. I think the D played well personally, I would even go so far to say they played at a championship level. I am not sure how many teams would have stood up to Fitzgerald's historic level of play on 5 possessions in the 4th quarter- especially with McFadden and Gay at corner.

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by FanSince72

I wonder if it's for the same reasons that Arians gets bashed as an OC despite a five-year winning record and two SB appearances?

Wrong thread. This thread is about defense. Don't worry though, now we will get to see how great Arians is in the NFC West. In his first year he should have it fairly easy what with the strength of schedule being adjusted for a 5-11 team. (Kind of like how the Colts schedule had been adjusted for a 2-14 team).

[Steelers5895]

Who is bashing Lebeau?

jeez talk about spinning this topic to fit your retorts.

my point was although we won 2 super bowls, MY OPINION is the defneses were good but not what I consider a Championship defense. No one considers this 10 year stretch of defenses a top historic championship defense. Its a good one but not elite. I rate the Giants defenses as championship defenses. They made the big plays when it mattered. Ours doesnt. Ours allows teams to come from behind. they dont seal the deal.

[harrison'samonster]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

Who is bashing Lebeau?

jeez talk about spinning this topic to fit your retorts.

my point was although we won 2 super bowls, MY OPINION is the defneses were good but not what I consider a Championship defense. No one considers this 10 year stretch of defenses a top historic championship defense. Its a good one but not elite. I rate the Giants defenses as championship defenses. They made the big plays when it mattered. Ours doesnt. Ours allows teams to come from behind. they dont seal the deal.

you are bashing Lebeau and the Steelers defense of the last ten years. I'm not spinning any of your words at all. When you want to come on here and claim that the other great defenses that helped win a SB are worthy of your admiration, and then say that the Steelers defenses are medicore--then you are bashing the Steelers.

Let's go over which teams you claim are championship qaulity of the past decade:

early 2000's Patriots (in 2004 we gave up fewer points than the Pats)
2000 Ravens
SB winning Bucs team (lost to us 17-7 that year which according to Foote is the reason Sapp hates the steelers)
The Giants during there past two SB wins (their D gave up 45 pts to the Packers in 2010)
The Packers team that beat us.

I'm telling you if you don't want to put the Steelers with those teams, you are bashing them. And everybody know we're not talking about this past 8-8 season.