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Old 01-23-2013, 11:09 AM   #11
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Default Re: Texas: Shooting-du-jour

Oh YOU'RE right ,Sorry I meant AR-15, don't worry mach we won't take away YOUR 2nd amendment.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: Texas: Shooting-du-jour

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Originally Posted by MACH1 View Post
Banning ar14's should be easy since there is no such thing.





Should the 1st amendment be repealed since there was no such thing as phones, tv's, internet, telegraphs, social media, msnbc when it was written?

Show me one walmart I can walk into and buy a nuke, grenade, rpg.
Phone's, TV's, Internet, ETC are not killing machines, gun's on the other hand are designed to kill.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:13 AM   #13
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Default Re: Texas: Shooting-du-jour

I do not think the 2nd amendment should be repealed, not for one second... Revised, maybe. Fact of the matter is when the 2nd amendment was written we had muskets, now we have AR-15s, which are VERY easy to obtain, not to mention m16s, ak47s and a whole array of semi-automatic/;automatic weapons that seem to be the preferred weapon of choice in mass shootings such as The VA Tech shooting, Aurora theater shooting, and Newtown Elementary school children Massacre.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: Texas: Shooting-du-jour

What happens when you take away the "assault" weapons and someone goes to a public place and shoots people one at a time with a hunting rifle? are those people less dead because the shooter had to pull the trigger every time instead of keeping the trigger pulled? The whole gun control/banning thing is ridiclulous.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:36 AM   #15
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Default Re: Texas: Shooting-du-jour

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Originally Posted by BlaZeQuietly View Post
Phone's, TV's, Internet, ETC are not killing machines, gun's on the other hand are designed to kill.
That wasn't my point. And as far as words getting people killed that's a different argument.


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What happens when you take away the "assault" weapons and someone goes to a public place and shoots people one at a time with a hunting rifle? are those people less dead because the shooter had to pull the trigger every time instead of keeping the trigger pulled? The whole gun control/banning thing is ridiclulous.
Thats the thing you have to pull the trigger every time on these "assault" weapons, one at a time. They are not fully automatic, full autos are illegal to own.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:41 AM   #16
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Default Re: Texas: Shooting-du-jour

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Originally Posted by BlaZeQuietly View Post
I do not think the 2nd amendment should be repealed, not for one second... Revised, maybe. Fact of the matter is when the 2nd amendment was written we had muskets, now we have AR-15s, which are VERY easy to obtain, not to mention m16s, ak47s and a whole array of semi-automatic/;automatic weapons that seem to be the preferred weapon of choice in mass shootings such as The VA Tech shooting, Aurora theater shooting, and Newtown Elementary school children Massacre.
VA Tech shooting was two pistols. Glock 19 pistol and Walther P22 pistol.

There are conflicting reports about whether or not the Bushmaster was used in Newton, or if it was just handguns.

M16's and other full auto weapons are extremely hard to obtain, and have never been used in any of these mass shootings. Not only are they very expensive (cheap ones are 5k), but you also have to go through ATF background checks, which takes months. Also, 99% of FFL's are not licensed to sell them. And good luck finding a gun range that allows you to shoot them.

The real preferred weapon of choice in shooting deaths is a handgun. In 2011, 323 people TOTAL were killed with rifles, out of 8,583 firearm related murders. That's less than knives, blunt objects, and personal weapons (fists, feet, etc.).

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...e-data-table-8

Since Columbine (and including Columbine), of the 21 shootings I'm going to list here, only 6 involve "assault" rifles (7 if you really want to include the bolt action rifle that was used in Lancaster). The rest are all pistols and shotguns.


December 11, 2012. On Tuesday, 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts killed 2 people and himself with a stolen rifle in Clackamas Town Center, Oregon. His motive is unknown.
Weapons Used: AR-15 semi-automatic rifle
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound after confronted with an armed defender.
Guns Allowed: Not on mall property, but the actual town; Yes.

August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.

Weapon Used: Springfield XD 9mm Pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound to evade police.
Guns Allowed: No

July 20, 2012. During the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, CO, 24-year-old James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58. Holmes was arrested outside the theater.

Weapons Used: Pump action 12 gauge, .40 caliber pistol, Smith and Wesson M&P 15.
Method of Capture: Surrendered to police.
Guns Allowed: No (theatre’s charge admission to the public, so this means no carrying)

April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.

Weapon Used: .45 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Arrested by police.
Guns Allowed: No

October 14, 2011. Eight people died in a shooting at Salon Meritage hair salon in Seal Beach, CA. The gunman, 41-year-old Scott Evans Dekraai, killed six women and two men dead, while just one woman survived. It was Orange County’s deadliest mass killing.

Weapons Used: 9mm Springfield pistol, H&K .45 pistol, Smith and Wesson 44 magnum.
Method of Capture: Arrested by Police.
Guns Allowed: Varies. (Orange County is a “may issue” locale)

September 6, 2011. Eduardo Sencion, 32, entered an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, NV and shot 12 people. Five died, including three National Guard members.

Weapon Used: AK-47 (this actually IS an assault-rifle)
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
Guns Allowed: Yes

January 8, 2011. Former Rep. Gabby Giffords (D-AZ) was shot in the head when 22-year-old Jared Loughner opened fire on an event she was holding at a Safeway market in Tucson, AZ. Six people died, including Arizona District Court Chief Judge John Roll, one of Giffords’ staffers, and a 9-year-old girl. 19 total were shot. Loughner has been sentenced to seven life terms plus 140 years, without parole.

Weapon Used: Glock 9mm pistol
Method of Capture: subdued by bystanders
Guns Allowed: In Tucson, Yes. In Safeway supermarkets: some yes and some no.

November 5, 2009. Forty-three people were shot by Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan at the Fort Hood army base in Texas. Hasan reportedly yelled “Allahu Akbar!” before opening fire, killing 13 and wounding 29 others.

Weapon Used: FN Five-Seven pistol
Method of Capture: Arrested by police.
Guns Allowed: Not really applicable – it’s a military base.

April 3, 2009. Jiverly Wong, 41, opened fire at an immigration center in Binghamton, New York before committing suicide. He killed 13 people and wounded 4.

Weapons Used: 9mm Beretta Vertec pistol, .45 Beretta Storm pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: No

March 29, 2009. Eight people died in a shooting at the Pinelake Health and Rehab nursing home in Carthage, NC. The gunman, 45-year-old Robert Stewart, was targeting his estranged wife who worked at the home and survived. Stewart was sentenced to life in prison.

Weapons Used: Remington 597 .22 rifle, .357 revolver, .22 magnum pistol, 12 gauge Winchester 1300 shotgun.
Method of Capture: Arrested by police.
Guns Allowed: Not on the premises, prohibited by sign on the property.

February 14, 2008. Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, killing 6 and wounding 21. The gunman shot and killed himself before police arrived. It was the fifth-deadliest university shooting in US history.

Weapons Used: 12 gauge Remington Sportsman shotgun, 9mm Glock 19 pistol, 9mm Sig Sauer P232 pistol, .380 pistol
Method of Capture: self-inflicted gunshot wound
Guns Allowed: No

February 7, 2008. Six people died and two were injured in a shooting spree at the City Hall in Kirkwood, Missouri. The gunman, Charles Lee Thornton, opened fire during a public meeting after being denied construction contracts he believed he deserved. Thornton was killed by police.

Weapons Used: Smith and Wesson model 29 44 Magnum revolver, Smith and Wesson .40 caliber pistol,
Method of Capture: Shot and killed by police.
Guns Allowed: Not in city hall.

December 5, 2007. A 19-year-old boy, Robert Hawkins, shot up a department store in the Westroads Mall in Omaha, NE. Hawkins killed 9 people and wounded 4 before killing himself. The semi-automatic rifle he used was stolen from his stepfather’s house.

Weapons Used: Century WASR-10 semi-automatic rifle.
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: Not on mall property.

April 16, 2007. Virginia Tech became the site of the deadliest school shooting in US history when a student, Seung-Hui Choi, gunned down 56 people. Thirty-two people died in the massacre.

Weapons Used: Glock 19 pistol, Walther P22 pistol.
Method of Capture: suicide
Guns Allowed: No

February 12, 2007. In Salt Lake City’s Trolley Square Mall, 5 people were shot to death and 4 others were wounded by 18-year-old gunman Sulejman Talović. One of the victims was a 16-year-old boy.

Weapons Used: Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun, 38 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Shot by off-duty police office illegally carrying his weapon.
Guns Allowed: No, but you can NOW. They removed the on-premises signs.

October 2, 2006. An Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster, PA was gunned down by 32-year-old Charles Carl Roberts, Roberts separated the boys from the girls, binding and shooting the girls. 5 young girls died, while 6 were injured. Roberts committed suicide afterward.

Weapons Used: Springfield XD 9mm pistol, Browning 12 gauge shotgun, Ruger .30-06 bolt-action rifle.
Method of Capture: Suicide
Guns Allowed: No

March 25, 2006. Seven died and 2 were injured by 28-year-old Kyle Aaron Huff in a shooting spree through Capitol Hill in Seattle, WA. The massacre was the worst killing in Seattle since 1983.

Weapons Used: Winchester 1300 12 gauge shotgun, Ruger P944 40 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gun shot wound.
Guns Allowed: No (It’s a private residence, but alcohol was on-site, so it would be unlawful to carry regardless of the local law.)

March 21, 2005. Teenager Jeffrey Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend before opening fire on Red Lake Senior High School, killing 9 people on campus and injuring 5. Weise killed himself.
Weapons Used: .40 caliber Glock 23 pistol, .22 caliber Ruger pistol, Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun.
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: No

March 12, 2005. A Living Church of God meeting was gunned down by 44-year-old church member Terry Michael Ratzmann at a Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, WI. Ratzmann was thought to have had religious motivations, and killed himself after executing the pastor, the pastor’s 16-year-old son, and 7 others. Four were wounded.

Weapon Used: 9mm pistol
Method of Capture: self-inflicted gunshot wound
Guns Allowed: Yes, (I think)

July 8, 2003. Doug Williams, a Lockheed Martin employee, shot up his plant in Meridian, MI in a racially-motivated rampage. He shot 14 people, most of them African American, and killed 7.

Weapons Used: Winchester 12 gauge shotgun, Ruger Mini-14 .223 caliber rifle.
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: No

September 15, 1999. Larry Gene Ashbrook opened fire on a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, TX. He killed 7 people and wounded 7 others, almost all teenagers. Ashbrook committed suicide.

Weapons Used: Ruger 9mm Pistol, .380 ACP pistol
Method of Capture: Suicide
Guns Allowed: No

July 29, 1999. Mark Orrin Barton, 44, murdered his wife and two children with a hammer before shooting up two Atlanta day trading firms. Barton, a day trader, was believed to be motivated by huge monetary losses. He killed 12 including his family and injured 13 before killing himself.

Weapons Used: Colt .45 pistol, Glock 17 9mm pistol, .22 pistol revolver, .25 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound
Guns Allowed: Too many various locations to determine all of them.

April 20, 1999. In the deadliest high school shooting in US history, teenagers Eric Harris and Dylan Kiebold shot up Columbine High School in Littleton, CO. They killed 13 people and wounded 21 others. They killed themselves after the massacre.

Weapons Used: 12 gauge Savage shotgun, Hi-Point 9mm pistol, TEC-9 9mm pistol, 12 gauge Stevens shotgun, and 99 improvised explosives.
Method of Capture: Suicide
Guns Allowed: No
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: Texas: Shooting-du-jour

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This just proves that having armed guards at schools are not going to make them safer.
I think arming guards with clubs might be a game changer
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Texas: Shooting-du-jour

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What happens when you take away the "assault" weapons and someone goes to a public place and shoots people one at a time with a hunting rifle? are those people less dead because the shooter had to pull the trigger every time instead of keeping the trigger pulled? .
You have a lower body count
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Texas: Shooting-du-jour

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You have a lower body count
No argument, but the same problem still exists. . You still have dead people at the hands of an unstable person using a gun. Is the argument that it's better and acceptable as long as the body count is kept low?

I just don't see the point of gun control unless every gun is taken out of the equation, and that will never happen, no matter how many laws are passed.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Texas: Shooting-du-jour

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No argument, but the same problem still exists. . You still have dead people at the hands of an unstable person using a gun. Is the argument that it's better and acceptable as long as the body count is kept low?

I just don't see the point of gun control unless every gun is taken out of the equation, and that will never happen, no matter how many laws are passed.
Cost-benefit analysis - 10 dead kids are too many but it is better than 20 dead kids when the trade-off is not being able to go hunting for squirrels with an AR-15

But this is an academic exercise in speculation - nothing is going to get passed by this Congress
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