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Old 01-25-2013, 06:58 PM   #21
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Default Re: defense next year

I think the only thing hindering Spence is his recovery. I hope he can make it back onto the field.

I think Farrior was even down to 218 one season, but the next season he intentionally added weight.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:58 PM   #22
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Default Re: defense next year

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Spence was drafted with special teams in mind. .
Wut??? lol
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:17 PM   #23
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Default Re: defense next year

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Spence was drafted with special teams in mind. fast enough to get down field and blow up the special teams plays.
.
In the 3rd round???
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:25 PM   #24
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Default Re: defense next year

If this D can fix the pass rush AND remember how to force TO's... the sky's the limit.

Need to stay healthy, need to draft more young 'uns, need to plug any/all young 'uns into the right roles and then need those young 'uns to step up.

A more efficient O would help alleviate problems, too.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:40 PM   #25
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Default Re: defense next year

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Spence was drafted with special teams in mind. fast enough to get down field and blow up the special teams plays. no one looked at him as a potential starter.
the Steelers drafted Spence with him being on the field is passing situations and covering other teams' RBs and TEs in mind. you don't draft guys in the 3rd round to only play special teams.

as for Spence being a potential starter, I believe the Steelers fully hoped and still do that he will one day develop into an every down player.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:29 PM   #26
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Default Re: defense next year

Spence is not going to start. LeBeau won't let him off the bench because it'd technically be his first year. According to his defense, there's no way in hell a guy can just jump into the starting lineup in the NFL in their first year. I mean look at how the 49ers D sucks with all those young guys.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:39 AM   #27
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Default Re: defense next year

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Originally Posted by WokeUpWithaWoodley View Post
So London fletcher is a bad linebacker because he is 5-10 Zach Thomas was also bad because he was 5-11. Drew Bree's, russel Wilson, Doug flute, were to small to be good at Qb. Wes walker being 5-9 same as Steve smith make them bad receivers because wr should be 6-0 taller as well. Bob sanders, Antonio Winfield, are 5-8 5-9 safeties that's should be to small as well right? I can keep going
London Fletcher is 240 and Thomas was over 240. Don't bring in Quarterback comparisons because it's apples and oranges. Drew Brees and Russel Wilson aren't tackling Hernandez, Gronk, and Richardson.

Comparing offensive players to an ILB isn't a fair comparison. They aren't trying to make plays in the middle of the field and bring down guys who are 240+ on almost every play.

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Don't judge a player based on his height and weight because it was proven to be wrong every year with players not being the prototypical size and height and being great.
You're right - don't judge offensive players on their weight. Show me another ILB that's 230. I don't mean in the 230's, I mean another ILB that is 230 - 232 lbs. He's too small and if he puts on size, he's taking away from his one and only asset - coverage speed. He can't blitz, he can't tackle guys bigger than him consistently and he has a hard time disengaging Guards and Tackles at the line to make a tackle for loss. He's a 3rd-and-passing distance ILB that they're hoping and praying can develop into an every-down, but I doubt it. If he puts on size, he loses his only asset and the only thing he brings to the table.

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We have seen spence only in preseason his rookie year in limited time. And no 10 pounds wouldn't hinder the fact that he can cover. Also to the point of weight I can find the article so take this for what you want but farrior has said during the season he would be around 230 that was his playing weight.
So, you haven't watched him at all playing for Miami? I guess that's why you're so high on this kid. Go watch college film on him and tell me that's our next ILB.

10 pounds might not seem like a lot of weight on paper but in reality, it's a lot of weight to put on.

That's great for Farrior and that's why he wasn't ever - in his career - a top 10 Linebacker. We don't need someone that is 230 trying to tackle Gronkowski and Hernandez because frankly, it'd be embarrassing.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:56 AM   #28
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Default Re: defense next year

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London Fletcher is 240 and Thomas was over 240. Don't bring in Quarterback comparisons because it's apples and oranges. Drew Brees and Russel Wilson aren't tackling Hernandez, Gronk, and Richardson.

Comparing offensive players to an ILB isn't a fair comparison. They aren't trying to make plays in the middle of the field and bring down guys who are 240+ on almost every play..
You were talking about spence only being 5-11 im showing you two very good linebackers who were that height. Like I said earlier and some else verified my comment that farrior was playing around 230 or under, he had no probably tackling big backs and tight ends.

I'm showing you cant also go by what the typical height weight for positions players are n the nfl I showed you two safeties that were very good at 5-9 and you want safeties to be 5-11 and up, I showed you two great wr who are 5-8 5-9 who are pro bowlers in a league where wr should be 6-0 and up. Just like how you say linebackers should weigh more cause of running backs and tight ends, well wr should be taller cause corners are 5-11 and up so you would think welker and smith would not be good but that's the opposite because they are football players.

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You're right - don't judge offensive players on their weight. Show me another ILB that's 230. I don't mean in the 230's, I mean another ILB that is 230 - 232 lbs. He's too small and if he puts on size, he's taking away from his one and only asset - coverage speed. He can't blitz, he can't tackle guys bigger than him consistently and he has a hard time disengaging Guards and Tackles at the line to make a tackle for loss. He's a 3rd-and-passing distance ILB that they're hoping and praying can develop into an every-down, but I doubt it. If he puts on size, he loses his only asset and the only thing he brings to the table. .
Here's a snipet from the Baltimore sun http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...rs-linebackers

A lean Lewis reported to training camp last week and acknowledged he is probably the lightest that he’s been since he arrived in Baltimore as a rookie in 1996, burdened by questions about whether he was too small to hold up at middle linebacker.

Sixteen years, 2,586 tackles and 13 Pro Bowl invites later, those questions are again being asked of Lewis who put himself through a rigorous offseason workout program he says has him weighing less than 240 pounds.

Lewis has played much of his career between 250 and 260 pounds.

"It is a passing game,” said Lewis, who has declined to reveal his exact weight. Lewis weighed 235 pounds in his rookie season. “It’s a quick game [that] they want. Offenses want to really exploit 30-40 points a weekend. It’s about creating mismatches, I think.”

“I think it will become a trend,” said Larry Coyer, a former defensive coordinator for the Denver Broncos and the Indianapolis Colts. “It’s changed in college football and [teams] are playing tag football with the spread offenses. They are playing with different types of athletes than they used to play with. The Ohio States, Michigans, Nebraskas, Oklahomas, they were going to pound you. But they don’t do that anymore. They are spread offenses. [The NFL] is getting the athletes that are available to them: fast, skilled, smaller and more athletic guys.”

"Daniel Jeremiah scouted the NFL for the past eight seasons, including a stint with the Ravens. He isn’t sure if other veteran NFL linebackers will follow the lead of Lewis and fellow Ravens’ inside linebacker Jameel McClain, who also shed some weight this offseason. But after watching the college game closely over the years, he can easily project where the pro game is headed.

"In the college game over the last eight years, linebackers have gotten smaller and smaller as a result of all the spread offenses that you see,”said Jeremiah, now an analyst for NFL.com. “There aren’t any 250-pound linebackers to draft.The last three or four years, the league has really started to get packed with these linebackers that are between 230 and 240. It seems to kind of be about the most you can get on a linebacker.”

Of course there is the expecting of Willis urlacher Cushing and such but it's a new era now like the what those experts have said.

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So, you haven't watched him at all playing for Miami? I guess that's why you're so high on this kid. Go watch college film on him and tell me that's our next ILB.

10 pounds might not seem like a lot of weight on paper but in reality, it's a lot of weight to put on.

That's great for Farrior and that's why he wasn't ever - in his career - a top 10 Linebacker. We don't need someone that is 230 trying to tackle Gronkowski and Hernandez because frankly, it'd be embarrassing.
I never said I was high on him go back and look I said he is unproven but has the upside to be very good. The same upside you think of Jordan.

And spence was very good in the run game at Miami he has 46 tackles for lose in his career. He shoots gaps very well to stop the running backs. I've watch a lot of film on him actually esp last year. Go look at Harrison college film, look at kiesel and smith film, Ryan Clark, those guys won't impress you. There are first round Selections ever year with great college film who turn out to be complete busts. That's what the nfl is so interesting because of the unknown factor you never know what your going to get until you put them on the field.

Farrior was the heart and soul of our defense, you can't have top 10 guys at every position the salary cap doesn't allow it.

Safeties and corners tackle those guys all the time and they aren't 240.
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:46 PM   #29
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Default Re: defense next year

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Originally Posted by WokeUpWithaWoodley View Post
You were talking about spence only being 5-11 im showing you two very good linebackers who were that height. Like I said earlier and some else verified my comment that farrior was playing around 230 or under, he had no probably tackling big backs and tight ends.
Farrior was a good, not great, Linebacker. He was lean and could tackle, sure, but he couldn't cover. They're two different Linebackers and comparing them - even by weight - is a mistake. I get what you're saying, I do, but even back then I questioned his weight.

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I'm showing you cant also go by what the typical height weight for positions players are n the nfl I showed you two safeties that were very good at 5-9 and you want safeties to be 5-11 and up, I showed you two great wr who are 5-8 5-9 who are pro bowlers in a league where wr should be 6-0 and up. Just like how you say linebackers should weigh more cause of running backs and tight ends, well wr should be taller cause corners are 5-11 and up so you would think welker and smith would not be good but that's the opposite because they are football players.
That ideology isn't great. Sure, there are the occasional players that are undersized that do well, but for the most part, they're unconventional and specialist players. Look at Chris Rainey, for example. He's fast and can catch out of the backfield in the flat, but he couldn't take a hit because he was too small.

There are guys like Flowers and Welker that are undersized and do great things in the league, but it's few and far between that small guys achieve anything. For every single guy you named there's 100 guys that are of a similar stature that didn't achieve or do anything in this league because of the obvious disadvantage and handicap they have of being too small.

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Originally Posted by WokeUpWithaWoodley View Post
Here's a snipet from the Baltimore sun http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...rs-linebackers
I'm going to be honest here, I only read where Lewis said he was 235 and that's fantastic. I'm happy for him being 235 and achieving. You have to understand that this isn't the norm and even now, it's unusual to see a truly great ILB be under 240.

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Of course there is the expecting of Willis urlacher Cushing and such but it's a new era now like the what those experts have said.
Uh, Willis is the new generation of Linebacker. He was drafted in 2007. Brian Cushing, who is a top 5 ILB, was drafted in 2009. These guys are the new era and prototypical Linebacker because they're two dimensional and possess both the ability to cover and make plays in the backfield. Spence is a one dimensional player because of his size and doesn't have the ability to make tackles and take on bigger backs, let alone shed blocks or disrupt an offensive line.

Let's look at the top 5 ILBs in the NFL, shall we?

1. Willis
2. Cushing
3. Bowman
4. Timmons (when used properly for Christ sake)
5. Beason

What do all those guys have in common? They're all prototypical size and strength, and possess the ability to be an every-down Linebacker. Spence doesn't have the strength or size to be an every-down and ultimately, he's a one-trick pony. He can defend the pass which is fantastic, but again, this ultimately means he's a 3rd down Linebacker.

Quote:
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I never said I was high on him go back and look I said he is unproven but has the upside to be very good. The same upside you think of Jordan.

And spence was very good in the run game at Miami he has 46 tackles for lose in his career. He shoots gaps very well to stop the running backs. I've watch a lot of film on him actually esp last year. Go look at Harrison college film, look at kiesel and smith film, Ryan Clark, those guys won't impress you. There are first round Selections ever year with great college film who turn out to be complete busts. That's what the nfl is so interesting because of the unknown factor you never know what your going to get until you put them on the field.
He has the upside to be a 3rd-and-passing distance inside Linebacker. Jordan has shown the ability to get sacks, shed blocks and use his size to his advantage.

So, you're taking collegiate stats and applying them to NFL potential? You realize that all scouts, GMs and coaches don't look at stats, yes? He played for Miami and was the only player on that defense that could do anything and was often overlooked and unblocked. Sure, he could get into the backfield when he had a direct shot into it and right on the RB but who couldn't do that? He also didn't play against any bigger, stronger Backs consistently and when he did, he got knocked around consistently.

He doesn't have the strength to be a consistent ILB in the NFL. He put up 12 reps on the bench at the combine and you're expecting him to tackle bigger, stronger and faster TEs? Really? I'd question whether or not he'd even be able to put up his own body weight more than 5 times at this point. He'd have to put on significant muscle and size to become an every down Linebacker which would impede his speed.

Think about that for a second. 12 reps. Asking someone with that kind of strength and size to tackle Pitta, Gronk, Hernandez, Richardson and Gresham isn't realistic. He would get tossed around like a rag-doll.

I don't know what you were saying with the rest of that paragraph because it doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about. Why don't we draft a 5'4 210 ILB because of the 'unknown factor'?
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:53 PM   #30
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Default Re: defense next year

SteelersCanada, you should have read the rest of the article, because it goes on to say what type of size LB's are trending towards.

You say that Willis is the new generation linebackers, I see him more as a physical phenom that won't be able to be doubled. Timmons is also on you list of top 5 ILB's, and to use him properly a player like Spence would come in handy.
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