Big Ben vs Joe Flacco

[Gnutella]

Originally Posted by scottcurtis

Steelers arent even in that game without J. harrisons score.

Steelers don't win without Roethlisberger's drive.

[JeromeBetties63]

Originally Posted by aa14

Roethlisberger had some GREAT days and some GREAT years. No one can ever take that away. I think it is apparent Flacco is on the rise as the newest superbowl MVP while Ben's best days are more than half a decade gone. He has taken way too many hits, it's sad. I know you disagree with me but as I inferred in my last post; you'll see come opening day.

Go look at Ben's stats this season before he got hurt. He was having a darn good year. You can say his prime is past but you would be wrong. Only way he doesn't out play Joe and lead Steelers to AFCN Title next year is injury.

[NSMaster56]

Originally Posted by aa14

The only thing that would have made the Ravens's ascent to the top sweeter would have been to dispose of the Steelers in the WC instead of Indy. Not the Ravens fault the Steelers couldn't make it to the dance though.

Yes, it's not the Ravens fault that the Steelers couldn't make it to the playoffs, but when they have faced off (Flacco vs. BB) it's:

Ravens 0
Steelers 2

[NSMaster56]

Originally Posted by sw04ca

I don't really buy that line of thinking. That's like saying that Garrard is better than Ben because he has the advantage over Ben in their head-to-head playoff record. And beat him in Pittsburgh. Flacco had a legendary postseason, and now it's time for the Steelers to step up and show they've still got it.

Faulty comparison. Garrard was never a starter as long as either Ben nor Flacco. As such, he had a short track record of games vs. PIT (maybe four total).

Ben and Flacco are comparison worthy since they have both had immediate [playoff] success in their first five years (8-2 w/ two rings for Ben, 9-4 with one for Flacco) and both came up in traditionally 'defense first' teams.

Furthermore and most importantly, Ben and Flacco have had the last five years to face off twice a year (plus playoffs) and in that time their H2H record is:

Regular season: 4-2, Big Ben
Total: 6-2, Big Ben

Hence why a Ben/Brady comparison is valid, because [since 2004] Ben vs. Brady games have netted similar results in favor of Brady.

EDIT: Big Ben vs. Brady: 2-4 Reg. Season, 2-5 TOT

[aa14]

Originally Posted by NSMaster56

Yes, it's not the Ravens fault that the Steelers couldn't make it to the playoffs, but when they have faced off (Flacco vs. BB) it's:

Ravens 0
Steelers 3

That time has passed. The reality is the Ravens are world champions and the Steelers watched half of the AFC north compete in the only important football the season has to offer on tv like the average fan did. I understand the optimism regarding the return of Ben but as a realist I only see the steelers competing with the Bengals for the WC at this point. Dalton is rising and Ben has been taking a beating for the ages from poor o-line play.

[NSMaster56]

Originally Posted by aa14

That time has passed.

FAR from definitive.

Originally Posted by aa14

I understand the optimism regarding the return of Ben but as a realist I only see the steelers competing with the Bengals for the WC at this point.

The optimism and realism are hand in hand. The Steelers win with (a healthy) Ben and don't without him. There are mountains of evidence as proof.

Originally Posted by aa14

Dalton is rising and Ben has been taking a beating for the ages from poor o-line play.

Big Ben has taken a beating and his time is 'winding down', but writing him (and the Steelers) off entirely seems foolish; as foolish as saying Flacco would 'never win one'.

If in five years Flacco has as many or more rings than Big Ben and the Steelers struggle to make/win in the playoffs, then we can start making bold statements.

Until then, it's too soon to put carts before horses.

[LayingTheWoodley56]

Originally Posted by BlaZeQuietly

Flacco is not elite, just because you win a superbowl doesn't make you elite, Ben has won 2 but anyone thats not on the steelers fever forums will tell you hes not Elite.

Elite is Brady, Rogers, P. Manning and Breese. Thats it Ben, Ryan, Eli, Flacco are good- great but not elite. Watch one of the four guys week in and week out for a whole season, then watch flacco/ ben week in and week out, you'll get my drift.

That's completely untrue. If anything Ben gets MORE criticism from within Steeler Nation and on this board than he does nationally. From everything I've ever heard he's regarded very highly by non-Steeler fans and media pundits as a player.

[sluggermatt15]

Originally Posted by sw04ca

??? This sport is all about what have you done for me lately. You can't deny that Flacco's last four games were very well played, while Ben has been wracked by injury. I'm no fool who could say that Flacco's achievements so far have outweighed Ben's, but Flacco had a better year.

I said nothing about how Flacco performed vs. Big Ben in 2012-2013. I also said nothing about Flacco's last 4 games. Why are you making assumptions when I haven't voiced my opinion on those topics?

[JeromeBetties63]

Originally Posted by aa14

That time has passed. The reality is the Ravens are world champions and the Steelers watched half of the AFC north compete in the only important football the season has to offer on tv like the average fan did. I understand the optimism regarding the return of Ben but as a realist I only see the steelers competing with the Bengals for the WC at this point. Dalton is rising and Ben has been taking a beating for the ages from poor o-line play.

It's one season in the NFL...wake up. Are you 14?

[fansince'76]

Originally Posted by scottcurtis

I see it as a total lack of conditioning and coming to camp with more chins than a Chinese phonebook !

Right.

2010:

After nearly one week of training camp for the Pittsburgh Steelers, the early reviews are coming in and one of the clear stars of camp has been Ben Roethlisberger.

Roethlisberger has been very sharp in team drills, moving swiftly throughout the pocket and connecting on a majority of his passes. Much of this can be credited to his physical conditioning as he is possibly in the best shape of his career.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...her-camp-notes

2011:

PITTSBURGH — Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger and the starters will play at least the first half in Saturday night’s game against the Falcons — their longest outing of the preseason.

Roethlisberger has looked very good throughout camp, making quick decisions and throwing with a lot of velocity. He came to camp in good shape, maybe his best ever, and it shows.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/stor...t-half-or-more


2012:

LATROBE, Pa. (AP) — Tight spiral after tight spiral. Repeated deep balls lofted deftly into the waiting hands of a receiver not breaking stride.

Ben Roethlisberger has looked as sharp as ever during practices throughout much of this Pittsburgh Steelers training camp this summer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1735291.html

Keep on shoveling it.