Defensive END play since Aaron Smith...

[Steelers5895]

we may want to blow up the line and start over. hood and heyward are not 3-4 DE's, wasted draft picks. time to see if we can get anything for them and move on. draft, sign or trade for those who have proven success in the 3-4 as an outside DE

[VaDave]

Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson

So you watched 4 plays of the Chiefs game and ate up everthing that the announcers said on that night....right?? They also lauded how great Larry Foote has played and if somebody took the time to break down that game they would see tha Foote was terrible.

DE's still have gap responsibility on a zone block and cannot give it up just to try and drive the OG into the backfield. He did get too high on quite a few plays that he got ridden out vs the Chiefs, but you have to give Eric Winston some credit for being a great RT too and getting under Hood.

IMO, that game was more on Larry Foote not being able to get upfield to get to the RB on zones to our left. I watched the game over on dvr and he ran around most blocks or just grabbed the OG Asumogua who was trying to block him. If Foote reads the play and moves forward, he fills the holes. Watch a guy like D'Quell Jackson, Navarro Bowman or London Fletcher play that position and compare to Foote and we see the ILB play from Foote is weak.

My point is that Hood gets bad rep for that 1 game and he did his job most of the time by occupying his gap, Foote left gaping holes. We are fine at end, but need ILB, (to replace Foote), OLB (to replace aging Harrison), Safety (Clark and Troy arent getting any younger)

Please rewatch the Washington, Cleveland II, both Baltimore games, then tell me I'm out of my mind. The fact it Hood gets turned WAY to easily. He is about worthless against stretch plays and zone blocking. Yanda OWNS him.

I doubt that anybody here expects much out of Foote at this stage of the game, so why even bother mentioning him. I certainly didn't bring him up.

Finally, I don't listen to the play by play annoucers for the very reason you mention. My sound is usually is off, with the exceptions of a few times I'll listen to Hargraove and Ilkin's radio cast I also re watch games several times on Game Rewind after the fact, so don't accuse me of being influenced by the hype the talking heads blovate.

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

we may want to blow up the line and start over. hood and heyward are not 3-4 DE's, wasted draft picks. time to see if we can get anything for them and move on. draft, sign or trade for those who have proven success in the 3-4 as an outside DE

If Heyward had played as many snaps as Keisel he was on pace to have 79 tackles and 6 sacks.

Heyward is the real deal and the future of the Steelers defense. I predict he will be a captain in a couple years.

I am almost amazed that anyone would consider Ironhead Jr a wasted draft pick.

[nikstar]

I agree that Heyward has actually been progressing fine for the amount of playing time he's been given. I do however think it's time that he gets more of it. Ziggy seems to be the bust here IMO. I see him shifting to NT after another season of teams running straight towards him. The move could work, although I don't know if his recent conditioning is appropriate for it.

[Riddle_Of_Steel]

Originally Posted by nikstar

I agree that Heyward has actually been progressing fine for the amount of playing time he's been given. I do however think it's time that he gets more of it. Ziggy seems to be the bust here IMO. I see him shifting to NT after another season of teams running straight towards him. The move could work, although I don't know if his recent conditioning is appropriate for it.

I think they should switch to a 4-3. I think that is where they are heading right now anyhow. Tomlin knows DL wont be around for forever. Most of their roster moves point to it.

Ziggy and Heyward are ideal 4-3 pass-rushing ends, best at attacking single gaps and ripping through. They aren't built to hold two gaps.

Big Steve is more of a 4-3 DT also. Timmons and Spence are ideal 4-3 MLBs. Remember, Tomlin drafted Timmons his first year and his Tampa-2 defense is known for using fast, agile MLBs in shallow zone coverage.

Even still, it should not come to that. If we can expect the offensive coordinator to come up with a gameplan that best suits the talent he has available, then there is no reason why the defense cannot do the same. Other than DL is a 3-4 guy and either can not, or will not, run a 4-3.

The Steelers come out in a 4-3 on occaision, but it is not their default formation. I do believe that if we made that full time switch, the fans would get to see a side of Ziggy Hood they have never seen before. He has a quick first step and long lanky ass arms good for spreading apart offensive linemen.

Heyward has looked great at times in spot duty, but lets be honest, so did Jonathan Dwyer and Redman. We could be holding a future team captain like Lloyd said, or a dud. Difficult to say at this point.


I think he has looked good. I remember watching his dad running the ball back in the day. Ironhead Heyward looked like an aluminum beer keg with legs on it. If he has any of his pops' grit or footwork, maybe he'll work good for us.

[pczach]

I've been hoping that the Steelers would actually show a little 4-3 once and a while. Let Hood and Heyward get after the qb in 3rd and long situations. Especially this past year with the injuries to Harrison and Woodley. I'd like to see them mix it up a little, give teams new looks to worry about. They actually have the personnel to do this. I don't think they should go to a 4-3 as the primary defensive set. I think they should incorporate it into the gameplans as a pressure/pass rushing package.

[steeltheone]

Originally Posted by stiller39

I agree as our run defense is not what its been since Smith left.

In 2010 the Steelers had the highest rated run Defense in team history. Smith played 6 games.

[Fire Arians]

our defense still is top 5 with him as starter, just sayin'

smith in his prime was one of the best 3-4 DE's in NFL history, if you expect hood or heyward to be as good as him you all will be disappointed, those type of players don't come around very often. and if they do you're lucky if they're on your team

[DanRooney]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

we may want to blow up the line and start over. hood and heyward are not 3-4 DE's, wasted draft picks. time to see if we can get anything for them and move on. draft, sign or trade for those who have proven success in the 3-4 as an outside DE

Heyward is the prototype 3-4 DE. I have no idea what the heck you're talking about there. Do you know anything about him at all?

Evander is a 4-3 DT and at best an undersized NT. He sucks in our defense.

[VaDave]

Just saying, there is no law that prevents a DE in a 3/4 from shooting a gap on occasion . How many times have we seen Ngata in our backfield? Acutually, I would like to see us do more than one or twice a season.....

As for the switch from the 3/4, it isn't going to happens soon so don't hold your breath. The 3/4 has proven to be a very successful defense. Moving to a 4-3 does not automatically create backfield pressure. As for shooting gaps, out of a 4-3, it makes you very suceptable to being gashed on running plays. Ever wonder why so few teams try to run traps on our D? Because if you do, your going to have a LB blowing up the play. On a 4-3 D, it's going for big yardage.

The main issue people complain about is the lack of a pass rush. Let me ask you a question, when there are 5 blockers, why would one think that having 4 rushers would be an advnatage over 5? I don't get this logic. The problem with the Steelers this past year is that Harrison is 36 years old, not 28, and he's got a bad knee. His counterpart on the other side loafs most of the time, so usually, the opposing OC send an RB or TE out there to play Patty Cake, leaving the RT to double team with the RG. So without that pressure, our secondary is exposed.

The only thing that I can see that is a disadvantage with our defense from a structural standpoint is with stretch plays and zone blocking schemes. Unless the LB can set the edge and the DE on that side doesn't get turned, it's trouble. Hood is prone to looking like he's on roller skates of these types of plays. If he's not turned, he's knocked 5 yards off the LOS into the secondary. Other than that, I see no advantages of a 4-3