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Old 02-15-2013, 08:53 PM   #51
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Default Re: Pittsburgh fire sale: The Steelers could lose every one of their FAs

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People are continually complaining about the recent drafts, but while not flashy, they have been pretty darn good.

From left to right: Gilbert, Beachum, Pouncey, DD, Adams. Not flashy, but when is an O-lineman flashy??? Games are won (& lost) in the trenches.

Likewise, Hood & Heyward (although some argue over these two... but, even if deemed good picks, DEs aren't "flashy").

If you want some flash: Keenan Lewis, Cortez Allen, Mike Wallace, and AB.

Also, there have been several good back-up/developmental players: Chris Carter, Stevenson Sylvester, Jason Worilds, Baron Batch, Manny Sanders, Sean Spence, David Paulson, Jonathan Dwyer.
From left to right...Pouncey is the only one of those players to date that has amounted to anything.

Hood Heyward....Hood was a good pick, Heyward has yet to do much

Flash?? 1 good season by Lewis and 4 good games by Allen is not " flashy" Wallace and Brown were good picks.

That last list of names are backups on most teams if they even make the roster.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:03 PM   #52
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Default Re: Pittsburgh fire sale: The Steelers could lose every one of their FAs

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Flash?? 1 good season by Lewis and 4 good games by Allen is not " flashy" Wallace and Brown were good picks.

That last list of names are backups on most teams if they even make the roster.
You could look at it like that, I guess. I look at it as Allen has come a long way since his rookie season and is now flashing his potential which, I think, is greater than Lewis'. Speaking of Lewis, that one good season showed that he too has come a long way and whatever Carnell is selling, the CBs are buying.

While I agree that all but one of those names haven't exactly amounted to anything, I'd argue that Manny Sanders has the most potential out of any of our WRs and has the potential to be an absolute stud. I think, with the right coaching, he can be a solid wide receiver in this league.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:29 PM   #53
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Default Re: Pittsburgh fire sale: The Steelers could lose every one of their FAs

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You could look at it like that, I guess. I look at it as Allen has come a long way since his rookie season and is now flashing his potential which, I think, is greater than Lewis'. Speaking of Lewis, that one good season showed that he too has come a long way and whatever Carnell is selling, the CBs are buying.

While I agree that all but one of those names haven't exactly amounted to anything, I'd argue that Manny Sanders has the most potential out of any of our WRs and has the potential to be an absolute stud. I think, with the right coaching, he can be a solid wide receiver in this league.
I used to think Sanders had the most potential too and he still might, but its only potential..Going on year 4 and has done basically nothing.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:21 AM   #54
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Default Re: Pittsburgh fire sale: The Steelers could lose every one of their FAs

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From left to right...Pouncey is the only one of those players to date that has amounted to anything.

Hood Heyward....Hood was a good pick, Heyward has yet to do much

Flash?? 1 good season by Lewis and 4 good games by Allen is not " flashy" Wallace and Brown were good picks.

That last list of names are backups on most teams if they even make the roster.
1. Lewis had the second most passes defensed on the NFL.

2. Yes, those last players listed are back-ups on this team. Every team has back-ups. Your point? Depth is not a bad thing.

3. Aaron Rodgers didn't do anything for his first four seasons. Would you consider him a bad pick???

4. Find me a team that has done better in the past four drafts.

5. Better yet, with the luxury of hindsight, redraft 2009-2012. Who would you take instead?
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:28 AM   #55
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Default Re: Pittsburgh fire sale: The Steelers could lose every one of their FAs

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1. Lewis had the second most passes defensed on the NFL.

2. Yes, those last players listed are back-ups on this team. Every team has back-ups. Your point? Depth is not a bad thing.

3. Aaron Rodgers didn't do anything for his first four seasons. Would you consider him a bad pick???

4. Find me a team that has done better in the past four drafts.

5. Better yet, with the luxury of hindsight, redraft 2009-2012. Who would you take instead?
I agree with your general theme that the drafts have been good. The Steelers have added a lot of quality players over the last 4 years. However, when Ike Taylor was injured and Lewis took over the pass defense suffered tremendously. (To be fair Lewis had a hip brpblem as well late in the season). Also, Rodgers satt behind Brett Favre; Lewis sat behind William Gay- that is a major difference in talent.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:23 AM   #56
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Default Re: Pittsburgh fire sale: The Steelers could lose every one of their FAs

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I agree with your general theme that the drafts have been good. The Steelers have added a lot of quality players over the last 4 years. However, when Ike Taylor was injured and Lewis took over the pass defense suffered tremendously. (To be fair Lewis had a hip brpblem as well late in the season). Also, Rodgers satt behind Brett Favre; Lewis sat behind William Gay- that is a major difference in talent.
You took the words right out of my mouth with Rodgers.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:33 AM   #57
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Default Re: Pittsburgh fire sale: The Steelers could lose every one of their FAs

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1. Lewis had the second most passes defensed on the NFL.

2. Yes, those last players listed are back-ups on this team. Every team has back-ups. Your point? Depth is not a bad thing.

3. Aaron Rodgers didn't do anything for his first four seasons. Would you consider him a bad pick???

4. Find me a team that has done better in the past four drafts.

5. Better yet, with the luxury of hindsight, redraft 2009-2012. Who would you take instead?
1...Lewis has had 1 good year, not great. You take a real chance paying him big bucks and finding out it was just " 1 good year "

2...We drafted a few of those players to high and even as backups they are very average.

3..Farve

4... Without looking The Bengals for sure, Green is better than Wallace and AB combined, Dalton, the Dlineman, Gresham...i know they pick early and i know they screw everything up they do, but their drafts lately have been pretty good.

5..i'd have to look over the drafts, i don't get paid to draft good players. I also don't get the " Steelers draft so well " buzz, when we have not done that well in the last 5 or so years.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:12 AM   #58
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Default Re: Pittsburgh fire sale: The Steelers could lose every one of their FAs

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I agree with your general theme that the drafts have been good. The Steelers have added a lot of quality players over the last 4 years. However, when Ike Taylor was injured and Lewis took over the pass defense suffered tremendously. (To be fair Lewis had a hip brpblem as well late in the season). Also, Rodgers satt behind Brett Favre; Lewis sat behind William Gay- that is a major difference in talent.
The point is still the same:
A player is not a bad pick just because they do not play and/or aren't productive for the first few years of their career.

Whether it be because they are behind a HOFer, or because the DC prefers veterans over rookies, or because they are transitioning from a small school, or because they are making the switch from a DE to an OLB... some players just do not play much early in their careers.

Woodley didn't start his first year. Porter didn't start his first year. Polamalu was lost his first year. And, Rodgers did not play for four years. None of them were bad picks... despite the flawed logic that unless a player is immediately good, they are not a good pick.

Again, that is my point: for four years, people "could" (& did) call him a bad pick... even though that evaluation would be erroneous. Make sense?

Lastly, the pass defense suffered when Ike went out... because, in that same game, Lewis & Allen both went out (and subsequently, missed multiple games and/or played injured).

At one point, the CBs were Josh Victorian & Robert Golden... and Golden is a safety.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:19 AM   #59
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Default Re: Pittsburgh fire sale: The Steelers could lose every one of their FAs

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1...Lewis has had 1 good year, not great. You take a real chance paying him big bucks and finding out it was just " 1 good year "

2...We drafted a few of those players to high and even as backups they are very average.

3..Farve

4... Without looking The Bengals for sure, Green is better than Wallace and AB combined, Dalton, the Dlineman, Gresham...i know they pick early and i know they screw everything up they do, but their drafts lately have been pretty good.

5..i'd have to look over the drafts, i don't get paid to draft good players. I also don't get the " Steelers draft so well " buzz, when we have not done that well in the last 5 or so years.
1. Still, when he got to start, he played well. It's not like he played poorly. I do not see how a player having a good year makes him a bad pick.

2. Says you. I've heard several analysts (Dilfer, Cosell) talk admirably about Pittsburgh's depth.

3. See above.

4. So, the fourth overall pick is better than Wallace. Duh. Come on man... you have to do better than that.

So, a team has some high picks pan out. Okay... and...??? How about the later picks? Plus, how is Gresham any better of a pick than DD or Hood?

5. You also don't get paid to evaluate them...
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:57 AM   #60
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Default Re: Pittsburgh fire sale: The Steelers could lose every one of their FAs

We haven't drafted well in the last five years? How about finding two Pro Bowl WRs in the third and sixth round? Or, drafting a CB with the most pass defensed in the league in the third round? Here's my favorite, though - drafting another CB who is quite possibly the best on the team, in the third round. Then, picking up our future NT that consistently makes plays in the backfield and disrupts the offensive line every time he's on the field after the draft.

Counting out Heyward and Hood is a mistake. Saying we haven't drafted well recently is a mistake. Colbert may have missed on a couple of early picks and guys like Richard Sherman, but overall, the drafts haven't been bad. Actually, they've been pretty damn good.
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