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Old 02-24-2013, 11:34 AM   #41
El-Gonzo Jackson
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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Originally Posted by teegre View Post
Very true. Defenders used to lose sleep for three or four days before having to play Dawson. He truly was one of the best who EVER played.

Is Pouncey "that" good? Probably not... but, I still think that Pouncey is great, and more importantly, i brlieve that he is going to get even better once his supporting cast is not a couple of dimwits (The Colon & Chemo).

I guess my point is something like this:
Is Ike Taylor as good as Rod Woodson? No... but, who is???
Is Casey the Hutt as good as Joe Greene? No... but, who is???
Is Pouncey as good as Dawson? No... but, who is???
What you say is true.

Both Colon and Kemo were maulers. DeCastro is a mauler with better feet. I honestly hope we keep Foster, as he is a dependable and nasty interior player.
Beechum is more of a technician IMO and will likely struggle with larger interior linemen in our division at guard. I would rather see Beechum as the swing tackle.

Gimme Gilbert, DeCastro, Pouncey, Foster, Adams to start on gameday and dress Beechum and Legursky (or any other backup C/G) as reserves. We can win with that line.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:14 PM   #42
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

Our offensive line is young, not terrible. If we can get a young starting 5 to play together for a good part of the season, they'll be a strength on this team, not a weakness. O-lines need more time to gel as a unit than any other group on the field.
I think this line, with this personnel will be good next year and very good in 2 years.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:56 PM   #43
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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Most would agree that they are optimistic about Pouncey and Decastro being solid at their positions. So thats 40% of the O line locked down fine.

Mike Adams has all the athletic ability, size and skill to be at the very worst, as good as Max Starks has been. Adams was a rookie, that lacked strength and didnt consistently set, punch and wasnt used to NFL pass rushers. He never should have been pencilled in at LT to start camp.

Marcus Gilbert is a better athlete than Max Starks is and should have been given reps at LT from the start of camp. Instead, the desire to have Adams at LT slowed his development. He has the fluid kick slide and strikes well to the chestplate of defenders in pass pro and is a good run blocker.

So, by an objective evaluation, we have 80% of the O line that has sufficient talent and skills to be productive. Only last piece is if Foster or Beechum rounds out the starting 5.

The O line is NOT a BIG problem. Doom and gloom is. (along with aging secondary, aging ILB, lacking of pass rush from the OLB position and Salary Cap space)
I agree with most of what you're saying, with a few exceptions. (1) You don't mention Gilbert's big second year regression, and that's a big warning sign to me. You never want to see a 2nd year player regress. This year will be important for him, but it's no lock. (2) I don't think Foster is NFL-starter material, but he's OK as a backup. (3) You don't mention the depth problem, and that's big. An OL needs some depth, something that we can definitely appreciate around here.

I'm assuming that Colon, Starks and Foster are gone - at least 2 of the 3. So that's why I say that "the OL is STILL a problem." But, let me also say that I'm very happy with the progress that we've made from a few years ago, and optimistic. It's just that we're definitely not there yet; the hole we're digging out of was very deep indeed.
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:05 PM   #44
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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Doesn't cutting Colon leave a lot of dead money? I thought I remember reading it was around $5 million.
Pretty sure that's inaccurate. It would SAVE $5M, I believe, worst case scenario it'd create about 1.5M dead money (not positive if that is accurate either)
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:09 PM   #45
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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I agree with most of what you're saying, with a few exceptions. (1) You don't mention Gilbert's big second year regression, and that's a big warning sign to me. You never want to see a 2nd year player regress. This year will be important for him, but it's no lock. (2) I don't think Foster is NFL-starter material, but he's OK as a backup. (3) You don't mention the depth problem, and that's big. An OL needs some depth, something that we can definitely appreciate around here.

I'm assuming that Colon, Starks and Foster are gone - at least 2 of the 3. So that's why I say that "the OL is STILL a problem." But, let me also say that I'm very happy with the progress that we've made from a few years ago, and optimistic. It's just that we're definitely not there yet; the hole we're digging out of was very deep indeed.
Gilbert only played 5 games and was placed on injured reserve. How can you judge a players "regression" when he didnt play that much? He should have been given reps at LT instead of Adams from the start of training camp.

Lack of depth?? Steelers havent had depth in over 10 years. Keydrick Vincent, Sean Mahan, Legursky, Tony Hills?? Cant have many pro bowlers for depth in the salary cap era.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:06 PM   #46
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

I have Given my opinions about Pouncey not being as good as he is advertised...But he is still good ( not great ) and he has proven that. The rest have proven zero...I really hope they come as advertised, if not we are looking at a few more 8 and 8 records.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:13 PM   #47
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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I have Given my opinions about Pouncey not being as good as he is advertised...But he is still good ( not great ) and he has proven that. The rest have proven zero...I really hope they come as advertised, if not we are looking at a few more 8 and 8 records.
very true. This season is hopefully going to answer a lot of questions for us. Questions about the OL, Brown and Sanders, Woodley, and possibly Redman and Dwyer.

The OL is were it starts. They need to remain healthy throughout the season.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:24 AM   #48
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

Depth at a cheap price:

R6: Khaled Holmes, OC/OG, USC
R7: Joe Madsen, OC/OG, WVU

If an interior player goes down, one of those two takes his place.
If an OT goes down, Beachum splits out to OT, and one of those guys plays LG.

Assuming Foster, Starks, & Legursky are gone...

Starters: Gilbert - Beachum - Pouncey - DD - Adams

Dress: Holmes & Madsen
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:30 AM   #49
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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Gilbert only played 5 games and was placed on injured reserve. How can you judge a players "regression" when he didnt play that much? He should have been given reps at LT instead of Adams from the start of training camp.
Gilbert was beaten like a drum in the exhibition games also. He looked as much like a rookie as Adams. He carried the same play into the season. If you watched the line, it was there to see plain as day.
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Lack of depth?? Steelers havent had depth in over 10 years. Keydrick Vincent, Sean Mahan, Legursky, Tony Hills?? Cant have many pro bowlers for depth in the salary cap era.
Not having depth for a decade kind of proves my point. Let's turn a weakness into a strength, especially as our QB ages.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:21 AM   #50
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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Pretty sure that's inaccurate. It would SAVE $5M, I believe, worst case scenario it'd create about 1.5M dead money (not positive if that is accurate either)
It depends when you cut him. There isn't much savings with cutting him prior to the March deadline. There is a significant savings if he is cut after June 1st, some of which will be a dead money hit in 2014. At least that's the way I understand it. What the exact dollars are is above my pay grade.
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