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Old 10-29-2013, 03:11 PM   #41
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Default Re: Fire Tomlin? Be careful for what you wish

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Originally Posted by montana49 View Post
Tomlin is the issue, get your head out of the sand people.

Someone name one phase of the team that has improved under Tomlin?

Now name all the phases that have declined since his arrival...
I'll tell you something that has improved.....Press conferences!

It's funny how people like you talk about the decline, but never want to talk about the ascension after he became head coach after Cowher. Why doesn't the team improving and going to two Super Bowls matter? If he sucks as you say, how did the team get better and win championships with him as the leader?
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Old 10-29-2013, 03:15 PM   #42
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Default Re: Fire Tomlin? Be careful for what you wish

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Originally Posted by pczach View Post
I'll tell you something that has improved.....Press conferences!

It's funny how people like you talk about the decline, but never want to talk about the ascension after he became head coach after Cowher. Why doesn't the team improving and going to two Super Bowls matter? If he sucks as you say, how did the team get better and win championships with him as the leader?
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Old 10-29-2013, 03:17 PM   #43
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Default Re: Fire Tomlin? Be careful for what you wish

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Originally Posted by AgentGold007 View Post
Hell yes, there are other reasons that this team is 2-5, like not being able to score touchdowns in the redzone, not exploiting other team's weaknesses like they do to the Steelers, injuries, etc., but since this thread is dedicated to Tomlin, people are pointing to his role in the Steelers disappointing season.
I see your point. And, obviously, Tomlin is not without fault. He is the HC, and thus he gets far too much credit for wins.... and far too much of the blame for losses.

But, I think that the intention of this thread (& the article which spawned it) is that far, far, far too many Steelers fans quickly react with "Fire Tomlin"... when he is only one factor, among many, as to why this season is awry.

Now... if you're asking me what I think Tomlin needs to do in order to right the ship/what he needs to do differently... I want two things: a) keep the O-line healthy, and b) turn FGs into TDs.

A) Just when the team was looking like it was hitting its stride (those two wins were significantly different in not just outcome, but in demeanor)... both Foster and DD go down with injuries. TOMLIN needs to figure this out... whatever the cause may be... because, this team is vastly different when its O-line is playing well.

B) Getting into the red-zone is happening on a regular basis. Settling for FGs has separated at least three losses (from being wins). TOMLIN needs to turn the reins over to BB in the red-zone; TOMLIN needs to veto Haley once the Steelers are inside of the 20... and, Tomlin has the power to do that.

Make sense?
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:04 PM   #44
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Default Re: Fire Tomlin? Be careful for what you wish

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I see your point. And, obviously, Tomlin is not without fault. He is the HC, and thus he gets far too much credit for wins.... and far too much of the blame for losses.

But, I think that the intention of this thread (& the article which spawned it) is that far, far, far too many Steelers fans quickly react with "Fire Tomlin"... when he is only one factor, among many, as to why this season is awry.

Now... if you're asking me what I think Tomlin needs to do in order to right the ship/what he needs to do differently... I want two things: a) keep the O-line healthy, and b) turn FGs into TDs.

A) Just when the team was looking like it was hitting its stride (those two wins were significantly different in not just outcome, but in demeanor)... both Foster and DD go down with injuries. TOMLIN needs to figure this out... whatever the cause may be... because, this team is vastly different when its O-line is playing well.

B) Getting into the red-zone is happening on a regular basis. Settling for FGs has separated at least three losses (from being wins). TOMLIN needs to turn the reins over to BB in the red-zone; TOMLIN needs to veto Haley once the Steelers are inside of the 20... and, Tomlin has the power to do that.

Make sense?
That's part of the way I see it. If Tomlin has veto power on play calling and personnel, but he keeps taking a back seat while Haley leads his offense to failure after failure in the redzone, then he needs to step in and steer them in the right direction, and if he doesn't, then he deserves the blame. There's no way that he should leave a 6'5" receiver sitting on the bench when they get in the redzone. I know Moye dropped a pass last week, but what receiver hasn't? Antonio Brown dropped two in the Oakland game. But in Moye's case, I know he's not Megatron, but I still would like to see them use him as an option in the redzone. The one time they did, he scored. That's just one of the gripes I have with Coach T. And do you honestly look at Steeler games and believe that they game planned for their games, because I sure don't?
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:26 PM   #45
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Default Re: Fire Tomlin? Be careful for what you wish

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That's part of the way I see it. If Tomlin has veto power on play calling and personnel, but he keeps taking a back seat while Haley leads his offense to failure after failure in the redzone, then he needs to step in and steer them in the right direction, and if he doesn't, then he deserves the blame. There's no way that he should leave a 6'5" receiver sitting on the bench when they get in the redzone. I know Moye dropped a pass last week, but what receiver hasn't? Antonio Brown dropped two in the Oakland game. But in Moye's case, I know he's not Megatron, but I still would like to see them use him as an option in the redzone. The one time they did, he scored. That's just one of the gripes I have with Coach T. And do you honestly look at Steeler games and believe that they game planned for their games, because I sure don't?
Yes, I do.

Let me use the Oakland game as an example.

The first pay from scrimmage, a breakdown in "contain" plus the QB doing something slightly different than normal, turns into 93-yard TD. Stuff like that happens... not usually to the Steelers, but it happens.

Then, they were stunned for about a half... and it showed.

Then came the blocked punt, which set up an easy score.

The seconds half was more of what I expected in the game: Oakland only got one first down, and the Steelers moved the ball readily.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:31 PM   #46
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Default Re: Fire Tomlin? Be careful for what you wish

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Yes, I do.

Let me use the Oakland game as an example.

The first pay from scrimmage, a breakdown in "contain" plus the QB doing something slightly different than normal, turns into 93-yard TD. Stuff like that happens... not usually to the Steelers, but it happens.

Then, they were stunned for about a half... and it showed.

Then came the blocked punt, which set up an easy score.

The seconds half was more of what I expected in the game: Oakland only got one first down, and the Steelers moved the ball readily.
To me, it seems like the Steelers just call plays and hope they work. There seems to be nothing methodical about it. Their plan seems to always be let Ben drop back, break outside the pocket, and hopefully make a play while he's running for his life. The ravens game seemed like they actually got together, devised a game plan to attack and keep the ravens off balanced. The last time before that where it looked like they actually game planned, was when they played New England a few years ago, when they used that short passing game offensively, and defensively they actually brought their corners up instead of playing 15 yards off of the ball. In 2010, when Ben was suspended, they were forced to put a game plan together for those games, and it worked pretty damn good. I remember the reverse on the opening kickoff vs. Tennessee that year I believe. They don't seem to do things like that anymore.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:07 AM   #47
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Default Re: Fire Tomlin? Be careful for what you wish

Just cut Woodley......he's doing far less positive things than Tomlin.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:15 AM   #48
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Default Re: Fire Tomlin? Be careful for what you wish

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I'll tell you something that has improved.....Press conferences!

It's funny how people like you talk about the decline, but never want to talk about the ascension after he became head coach after Cowher. Why doesn't the team improving and going to two Super Bowls matter? If he sucks as you say, how did the team get better and win championships with him as the leader?
I think Cowher's master plan was to go a mediocre 8-8 in his final season as head coach to make the new guy look good coming in. He set Tomlin up to be the new hero in town by allowing him to use his players to go to 2 Super Bowls and win one.

Too bad he just can't seem to fool those pesky Tomlin haters. I guess he'll just have to un-retire and come back to lead the Steelers to one more Super Bowl win in the next 15 years like he did when he was a world conquerer before.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:23 AM   #49
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Default Re: Fire Tomlin? Be careful for what you wish

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Just cut Woodley......he's doing far less positive things than Tomlin.
Can't cut Woodley, he counts too much against our SC.

He's been holding down his job pretty well this year though anyway.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:27 AM   #50
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Default Re: Fire Tomlin? Be careful for what you wish

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Tomlin is the issue, get your head out of the sand people.

Someone name one phase of the team that has improved under Tomlin?

Now name all the phases that have declined since his arrival...
the fallacy in your logic is that you're only seeing our recent decline, not his whole "body of work" (to use a Tomlinism). Were you a fan during the Cowher era? We had some sufferage there as well and it took 13 years to win a championship?

You need to pull your head out of the sand my friend. We STILL don't have a losing season under Mike Tomlin.

"Sometimes the answer to the problem is to not fire everyone!" - Ed Bouchette.
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