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Old 01-25-2014, 01:46 PM   #171
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Default Re: Big Ben or Brady?

As much as I hate him you'd have to be nuts to not say Brady.
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:54 PM   #172
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Default Re: Big Ben or Brady?

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As much as I hate him you'd have to be nuts to not say Brady.
We need to revisit posts like this in 5-6 years....angrychair style.

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Old 01-25-2014, 03:52 PM   #173
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Default Re: Big Ben or Brady?

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I have only read the first few pages of this but here are some more stats to consider:

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/...gers-tony-romo

(I know it is a Dallas blog, but I found the statistics interesting.)
This is good stuff.

I'd still contend that people can't properly evaluate what BR7 does with such a bad OL, at least statistically or in comparison to the other 'greats', but on the surface the WOA stats seems to have him pegged correctly.

The Steelers aren't built to win shootouts and while BR7 is clutch, he is just as mistake prone to cost his team as many games as he wins.
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Old 01-25-2014, 04:39 PM   #174
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Default Re: Big Ben or Brady?

Some quick stats I found while looking up the 143 times a QB has been sacked 42+ times in a season:

Big Ben has been sacked at least 42 times five years. Only Randall Cunningham has more occurrences with seven (seriously, imagine how many rush yards Cunningham would have accumulated if sacks didn't count as -yds!).

Three of those five years BR7 posted a RATE above 90. The two seasons he didn't he won the SB (80.1 RATE in 2008) and was hampered by appendicitis+thumb injury+being hit by a car (75.4 in 2006).

AVG QB sacked 42+ times: 57.95 comp%, 18.35 TD, 14.75 INT, 3196 Yds, 79.3 RATE, only 13 seasons of 9+ wins and a 90 RATE

BR7 sacked 42+ times: 63.15 comp%, 24.2 TD, 15 INT, 3711 Yds, 90.4 RATE, 2 seasons of 9+ wins and a 90 RATE

BR7 also has the third and eighth best RATE when sacked 42+ times and is one of only one of six QBs to post a >100 RATE while sacked as many times.

Peer comparison:

Four of Tom Brady's worst five seasons (by RATE and/or AV; and to some extent TD and comp%) happened when he was sacked 30 or more times. He has been sacked 40 or more times only twice (40 this year and 41 in 2001).

Peyton Manning has never been sacked more than 29 times, but his worst three seasons occurred when he was sacked most (or worst two if you discount his rookie campaign).

Drew Brees just had one of his four best seasons while being sacked career-high number of times. It was the first time he has been sacked more than 30 times in a season.

Also worth noting that...

Big Ben has been only been sacked fewer than 30 times once in his career (23 times in 2005, the year he won the SB; of course, he only played in 12 games that year...)

He has been sacked 386 times in 10 years (38.6 sacked/year) whereas Brady only 343 times in 12 years (28.583; not counting his injured 2008 season) and Peyton a mere 270 times in 16 years (16.875).

All this is to say that it looks as if it's really difficult to compare him to his 'peer' QBs (not named Aaron Rodgers) statistically or even 'mechanically'.

His situation has been quite unique and he's handled it marvelously (post-2004 inflated pass stats included).

Last edited by NSMaster56; 01-25-2014 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 01-25-2014, 07:49 PM   #175
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Default Re: Big Ben or Brady?

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Originally Posted by NSMaster56 View Post

The Steelers aren't built to win shootouts and while BR7 is clutch, he is just as mistake prone to cost his team as many games as he wins.

And I could say the EXACT SAME THINGS about Terry Bradshaw and that didn't turn out too badly.
You want to compare Ben to someone, forget Manning or Brady --- compare him to Bradshaw.

Ben will NEVER have numbers like Marsha or the pizza salesman but like I've said many times, I can't think of anyone I'd rather have with the ball in his hands and the game on the line.
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Old 01-26-2014, 08:54 AM   #176
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Default Re: Big Ben or Brady?

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This is good stuff.

I'd still contend that people can't properly evaluate what BR7 does with such a bad OL, at least statistically or in comparison to the other 'greats', but on the surface the WOA stats seems to have him pegged correctly.

The Steelers aren't built to win shootouts and while BR7 is clutch, he is just as mistake prone to cost his team as many games as he wins.
What was also interesting about the stats in that blog is that in half of the games thar the Steelers won with BR as QB the opposing team scored 10 or less points.

It is an interesting stat, WOA. It seems to rank QBs in an interesting light, more than yards passing or completion percent. Of course, football is a team sport wherevthe QB is given too much credit and too much blame.
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:21 AM   #177
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Default Re: Big Ben or Brady?

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What was also interesting about the stats in that blog is that in half of the games thar the Steelers won with BR as QB the opposing team scored 10 or less points.

It is an interesting stat, WOA. It seems to rank QBs in an interesting light, more than yards passing or completion percent. Of course, football is a team sport wherevthe QB is given too much credit and too much blame.
The stat is certainly more appealing for the 'new style' of football, where good defense is less important than just winning.

Without looking through BR7's game log, I would wager that of those wins where his D gave up less than 10 points the Steelers scored a shade over 10 themselves at least 25-33% of the time (I'm specifically thinking of 2008 when the Steelers beat CLE 10-6, SD 11-10 and BAL 13-9, among other instances).

The Cowher Steelers grinded out wins in the 17-6-to-23-13 score range.

The post-Cowher Steelers had to transition to a new offensive philosophy with a third year QB and a Swiss-cheese OL.

Factor in the elements of being an East coast team and you have the makings of a 'smash mouth' football team that was never going to win with 'style points'.

The 08 Steelers played 70's football. Starting in 09 they began adapting to more a modern era and it hasn't worked too well (for a variety of reasons).

WOA seems like a good indicator of a team's 'style', but it can't account for a QB like BR7 or Flacco's importance in a certain ('smash mouth') style.

Maybe if there were WOA stats for the Slash/Maddox and post-Dilfer eras we'd have a better indication of just how important BR7 and Flacco are to their respective teams?
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Old 01-26-2014, 01:06 PM   #178
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Default Re: Big Ben or Brady?

Brady five trips to the Super Bowl, winning three, not to mention countless Championships,...
Ben, 3 trips, winning 2 + Champioships...

The rest of their stats don't even matter, and if they do?, Brady wins those too. (bias aside).
I hate Brady's guts, entirely because he plays AGAINST the Steelers, but comon', Ben can close this gap, but he ain't up there beside Brady, not quite yet.
sry.
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