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August 16th, 2014, 7:30pmET

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Old 02-15-2014, 10:11 AM   #11
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNEW View Post
No Jack Ham? Never saw him play but don't many consider him to be the best OLB ever?
Indeed.

A few years ago, the announcers (erroneously) announced that Ray Lewis had passed Jack Ham on the "all-time INTs by a LB list."

Lewis was in year 14. Ham did it in 11.

INTs:
Lewis 31
Ham 32

Total forced turnovers:
Lewis 50
Ham 53

Murders:
Lewis 2
Ham 0
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:26 AM   #12
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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Indeed.

A few years ago, the announcers (erroneously) announced that Ray Lewis had passed Jack Ham on the "all-time INTs by a LB list."

Lewis was in year 14. Ham did it in 11.

INTs:
Lewis 31
Ham 32

Total forced turnovers:
Lewis 50
Ham 53

Murders:

Lewis 2
Ham 0
Ham was always such an underachiever.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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I laugh at Hines as the #10 best WR though. Um... no.
you mean he should be in the top 5, right?
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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you mean he should be in the top 5, right?
If I had to think of the best 10 WRs...

First crew would be the 'black inkers':

Rice
Moss
TO
Alworth
Harrison
Largent
Carter
Bruce/Holt

Then there's the group who didn't lead in many categories, but were consistently dominant and who are jumbled together in terms of varying skill:

Irvin
Reed
Monk
Brown

Then there's Don Hutson, who was undeniably the best WR of his era, but whose era might not translate well into the modern.

Then there's Sterling Sharpe, who was well on his way to the HoF before injuries derailed an epic career in his prime.

Then there's the modern greats like Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson (maybe even Steve Smith or Andre Johnson) who will enter the discussion once they retire.

And THEN I'd get to the Hines Ward group; consistently good, occasionally great, best WRs on their team, but not quite as dominant as the other guys previously mentioned (Herman Moore, Rod Smith, Henry Ellard, etc.).
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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Originally Posted by NSMaster56 View Post
If I had to think of the best 10 WRs...

First crew would be the 'black inkers':

Rice
Moss
TO
Alworth
Harrison
Largent
Carter
Bruce/Holt

Then there's the group who didn't lead in many categories, but were consistently dominant and who are jumbled together in terms of varying skill:

Irvin
Reed
Monk
Brown

Then there's Don Hutson, who was undeniably the best WR of his era, but whose era might not translate well into the modern.

Then there's Sterling Sharpe, who was well on his way to the HoF before injuries derailed an epic career in his prime.

Then there's the modern greats like Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson (maybe even Steve Smith or Andre Johnson) who will enter the discussion once they retire.

And THEN I'd get to the Hines Ward group; consistently good, occasionally great, best WRs on their team, but not quite as dominant as the other guys previously mentioned (Herman Moore, Rod Smith, Henry Ellard, etc.).
I'd take Hines ward over most of those guys. For a good chunk of his career, he didn't have a QB, he's got all receiving steeler record, and he's the toughest/greatest blocking WR ever. He's also got the postseason credentials.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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I'd take Hines ward over most of those guys. For a good chunk of his career, he didn't have a QB, he's got all receiving steeler record, and he's the toughest/greatest blocking WR ever. He's also got the postseason credentials.
I agree there. If I were to start a team, Ward would be the first reciever I would take, then I would pair him up with one of these tall, wide wing-span guys.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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I'd take Hines ward over most of those guys. For a good chunk of his career, he didn't have a QB, he's got all receiving steeler record, and he's the toughest/greatest blocking WR ever. He's also got the postseason credentials.
Whoa.

We're just going to have to disagree here.

Ward's tough as nails and a great all-around WR, but he wasn't as 'dynamic' as most of the guys I named.

And the whole 'never had a QB' argument is not unique to him and him alone:

I mean, Sterling Sharpe had the Majik Man and Tomczak throwing to him for most of his career before Favre arrived.

Alworth had John Hadl (who appears to have been good, but is never mentioned in the annals of great QBs).

Largent had Dave Krieg, a 'Hall of very good' QB and Jim Zorn.

Poor Isaac Bruce was stuck with Chris Miller's and Tony Banks' until his sixth season.

Chris Carter had at least seven different QBs throwing him passes between 1990-2001. Tim Brown had at least six from 1988-2003.

Larry Fitz only had three years of Warner before he retired; the rest of his QBs have been Leinart's, McCown's, Skelton's, Lindell's, Kolb's and Palmers...

None of this is to denigrate Hines, merely point out how WR has primarily been a position valued for play-making [and those other guys did it better under similar conditions]. In those terms Hines is maybe in the top-20 all time (if he's lucky).

Most of Hines' 'edge' vs. the competition is built on the reputation that he was a 'rugged' receiver.

It's what made him great, for sure, but those other guys... *whistle* They're what I think of first when I think of the position.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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People do forget that the Steelers dominated the third quarter (going up 20-9) though; which somewhat diminishes the game.

There were only three drives in that quarter since PIT's FG drive lasted over 8 1/2 minutes (!).

That 'lull' carried over into fourth (since PIT has a historically dominant 4Q D) until half the quarter was over.

That's when the madness happened.
The SI book is great for the writing and more so for the photos

As you note, the action in SB XLIII of any significance was limited to the Harrison 100 yard pick six until all hell broke loose with 2 TDs and a safety (including a great catch and run by Fitzgerald) by the Cards followed by the Steelers' drive

But other games ranked higher were famous when about the only interesting thing that happened was the last drive and, in one case, not even that

The #1 game in the SI book is the 1958 NFL championship between the Giants and the Colts. That game was 17-14 in the 4th quarter when Unitas conducted a famous 2 minute drive for a tying FG, which sent the game into the first OT for a championship game 23-17 Colts win. The reason that is the "greatest game of all time" is that it was an entertaining 4th quarter of a championship game early in the TV era which involved a New York team.

The #3 game was the Dallas-Green Bay Ice Bowl. In that game Green Bay blew a 14-0 first half lead but won on a legendary drive at the end of the game to win 21-17.

The #4 game is the Jets beating the Colts 16-7 in Super Bowl III.

So a lot of where a game is ranked depends on how great the media wants it to be in the post-game coverage. The 3 games above were great in large part because two involved New York teams and the other involved a legendary team.

OTOH the #2 game in the SI book is the epic 1981 playoffs game between Miami and San Diego that the Chargers won 41-38 in OT. That was a remarkable game.

Greatest game for me not on the SI list is the 2 OT Chiefs-Dolphins Christmas Day 1971 playoff game. Game involved a once and a future Super Bowl team.

Don Banks of Si.com appears to agree with me in this 2011 article written on the 40th anniversary of that game

It lasted nearly 83 mesmerizing minutes of game action, a six-quarter see-saw extravaganza that stretched from mid-afternoon into the dark December evening, with enough drama, plot twists and momentum shifts to fill a novel.

It's easily my most vivid NFL memory of childhood, and thoughts of that thrilling 27-24 Miami victory in the AFC Divisional playoff in Kansas City -- won on Garo Yepremian's 37-yard field goal roughly midway through the second overtime...still the most thrilling NFL playoff game ever for my money


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz2tQaIZObO


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz2tQa9AFyk
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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No Jack Ham? Never saw him play but don't many consider him to be the best OLB ever?
Ham always gets overlooked for all time OLBs since the OLB position changed after Lawrence Taylor to be much more attacking off the edge to get the passer than pass coverage and run support at which Ham excelled

Of all the dominant Steelers IMO he was the most dominant at his position

First team all pro every year from 1974 - 1979 (playing on the left side behind Mean Joe and LC - good luck going against those three). He was never the same after he had a bad leg injury at the end of the 1979 season but in his prime teams tried to stay away from him.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...H/HamxJa00.htm
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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The #4 game is the Jets beating the Colts 16-7 in Super Bowl III.


That has to be the #1 most overrated game of all time.

In terms of 'major upset' and 'quality of the game', SB XLII surpasses it.

The whole mystique of 'The Guarantee' and the narrative that it led to the merger are what gives it such historical cache.

It's a great game and all, but not better than other ones which were more 'back and forth' or otherwise a better overall game (such as the two you cite).

Quote:
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So a lot of where a game is ranked depends on how great the media wants it to be in the post-game coverage. The 3 games above were great in large part because two involved New York teams and the other involved a legendary team.
Excellent points.
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