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Old 02-15-2014, 08:56 PM   #31
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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How did it save the AFL? The merger was already going through
The widely accepted narrative is that it saved the reputation of the AFL (teams), at least.

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If it had been the Raiders or Chiefs beating the Colts it would not have been near the story
Yep.

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And what was particularly historic about The Ice Bowl - Cincinnati -San Diego was colder
Winner represented the NFL in the Super Bowl.

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As for "The Greatest Game Ever Played" it has had that title for 50 years -

Just sayin'
First playoff game to feature OT. Only championship game to have.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:30 PM   #32
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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The widely accepted narrative is that it saved the reputation of the AFL (teams), at least.
Until it would have been saved the next year when the Chiefs waxed the Vikings in the last game played by an AFL as opposed to an AFC team prior to the merger - but the narrative was established by then that the honor of the AFL had been saved by Broadway Joe

Quote:
Winner represented the NFL in the Super Bowl.
As was the case when Green Bay intercepted Dallas in the end zone to win the 1966 NFL championship (a game rarely cited as a legendary game)

The Ice Bowl is probably the most famous game in pro football history: the deathly cold Cowboys-Packers battle in the 1967 NFL championship game....

But before the Ice Bowl there was a game that might have been bigger and more important. Before the Ice Bowl, played on New Year's Eve 1967, there was the 1966 NFL championship game, played on New Year's Day 1967, a star-studded drama and cultural milestone that unfolded in the twilight of the Cotton Bowl in Dallas.

It was a brilliant game in its own right. The upstart Cowboys in their very first playoff game battled the mighty Packers toe to toe for 60 minutes before a frenzied home crowd and a large national audience. Trailing 34-27 late in the fourth quarter, Don Meredith drove the Cowboys all the way to the Green Bay 2, just six feet from tying the Packers and forcing the second overtime championship game in NFL history.

But on his last snap, Meredith was pressured by Packers linebacker Dave Robinson and lofted a desperation floater into the end zone. It was picked off by defensive back Tom Brown with 28 seconds to play.


http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...ice-bowl/6660/

And although it was NFC rather than NFL by then, as was the case with "The Catch" when the 49ers beat Dallas on last minute drive to win and then go on to win their first of four Super Bowls

Why is that game #8 and The Ice Bowl #3 according to SI?

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First playoff game to feature OT. Only championship game to have.
I just do not think it was that incomparably riveting a game

First Quarter
NYG Summerall 36 yd. FG
Second Quarter
BAL Ameche 2 yd. run (Myhra kick) BAL Berry 15 yd. pass from Unitas (Myhra kick)
Third Quarter
NYG Triplett 1 yd. run (Summerall kick)
Fourth Quarter
NYG Gifford 15 yd. pass from Conerly (Summerall kick) BAL Myhra 20 yd. FG
Overtime
BAL Ameche 1 yd. run (no extra point attempted)


First Quarter
NYG Summerall 36 yd. FG
Second Quarter
BAL Ameche 2 yd. run (Myhra kick) BAL Berry 15 yd. pass from Unitas (Myhra kick)
Third Quarter
NYG Triplett 1 yd. run (Summerall kick)
Fourth Quarter
NYG Gifford 15 yd. pass from Conerly (Summerall kick) BAL Myhra 20 yd. FG
Overtime
BAL Ameche 1 yd. run (no extra point attempted)


http://www.profootballhof.com/histor...elease_id=3011

The NFL wanted to immediately call Colts-Giants the greatest game of all time so New York, more the media capital of the U.S. then than it is now, so the New York media could have a sport worthy of being covered by the major magazines and national networks

You can make arguments for a lot of games and nobody is right or wrong as to which game was "the best," but my contention is the 3 games we have discussed were games for which the NFL had a narrative to push that was assisted by immediately classifying those games as among the greatest of all time

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Old 02-15-2014, 11:26 PM   #33
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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Until it would have been saved the next year when the Chiefs waxed the Vikings in the last game played by an AFL as opposed to an AFC team prior to the merger - but the narrative was established by then that the honor of the AFL had been saved by Broadway Joe
I'm with you/you're preaching to the choir.

Like I said, the game is overrated and the standard narrative is forced.

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As was the case when Green Bay intercepted Dallas in the end zone to win the 1966 NFL championship (a game rarely cited as a legendary game)
Lombardi's gutsy call to go for it. Pack going back-to-back. Led to the naming of the Lombardi trophy. Again, larger narrative stuff.

I do agree how it's odd that the 1966 game is overlooked though. Can't explain that one.

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And although it was NFC rather than NFL by then, as was the case with "The Catch" when the 49ers beat Dallas on last minute drive to win and then go on to win their first of four Super Bowls

Why is that game #8 and The Ice Bowl #3 according to SI?
Great point.

The weather probably gives 'The Ice Bowl' an edge, but 'The Catch' is a great game that's quite comparable. If nothing else it's greater than 'The Guarantee'.

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The NFL wanted to immediately call Colts-Giants the greatest game of all time so New York, more the media capital of the U.S. then than it is now, so the New York media could have a sport worthy of being covered by the major magazines and national networks

You can make arguments for a lot of games and nobody is right or wrong as to which game was "the best," but my contention is the 3 games we have discussed were games for which the NFL had a narrative to push that was assisted by immediately classifying those games as among the greatest of all time
Excellent point and I do agree to a point.

The difference would be that the game lived up to the hype and it happened as the NFL was gaining in popularity at a break-neck pace.

Overrated? Yes. A lot more justifiable than 'The Guarantee' though.

That game was one-sided and there are no memorable moments from the game.

At least 'The Greatest Game Ever Played' had Unitas' two-minute drill.

For my money, SB XXXII, XXXVI, XLII, XLIII are the greatest games I've seen.

Also in the running (at least for postseason) would be:
1992 WC (BUF comeback vs. HOU)
1996 AFC Div Rd (JAX over DEN)
2005 AFC Div Rd (PIT over IND)
2006 AFCCG (IND comeback vs. NE)
1998 NFC WC (SF finally beats GB)
2011 NFC Div Rd (SF-NO shootout)
2013 NFCCG (SEA-SF)
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:38 PM   #34
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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For my money, SB XXXII, XXXVI, XLII, XLIII are the greatest games I've seen.

Also in the running (at least for postseason) would be:
1992 WC (BUF comeback vs. HOU)
1996 AFC Div Rd (JAX over DEN)
2005 AFC Div Rd (PIT over IND)
2006 AFCCG (IND comeback vs. NE)
1998 NFC WC (SF finally beats GB)
2011 NFC Div Rd (SF-NO shootout)
2013 NFCCG (SEA-SF)
Great list of other candidates

Here is the complete list of the SI Top 10 Games.as of when the book was published

1. 1958 NFL Championship (Colts-Giants)
2. 1981 AFC Playoffs (Dolphins-Chargers)
3. 1967 NFL Championship (Packers-Colts Ice Bowl)
4. Super Bowl III (Jets-Colts)
5. Super Bowl XLII (Giants-Pats)
6. 1992 AFC Playoffs (Bills-Oilers)
7. Super Bowl XLIII (Steelers-Cardinals)
8. 1981 NFC Championship (49ers-Cowboys)
9. Super Bowl XIII (Steelers-Cowboys)
10.2006 AFC Championship (Pats-Colts)
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:31 AM   #35
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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I was like Don Banks - I kept getting up and down from the Christmas dinner table to go back into the family room to watch the Chiefs-Dolphins OT - I was a big Chiefs fan in the late 60s-early 70s since I needed a team to root for (in addition to the Steelers) that might actually make the playoffs (even then I hated the Raiders) - starting in 1972 I no longer needed to root for anyone other than the Steelers

Chiefs would have won in regulation but Jan Stenerud, one of the greatest kickers of all time, missed a chip shot FG at the end of regulation
Talk about a parallel universe.

At the time, the Chiefs were also my "second team" which grew out of my hatred for the Raiduhs.

My best friend at the time was a big AFL and Raiders fan and I kind of latched on to the Chiefs.

The Immaculate Reception also ended my support of the Chiefs.

Some great players on that team.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:33 AM   #36
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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Talk about a parallel universe.

At the time, the Chiefs were also my "second team" which grew out of my hatred for the Raiduhs.... Some great players on that team.
True that - five members of the Chiefs Super Bowl IV winning defense are in the HOF.

Defensive tackles Buck Buchanan and Curly Culp, linebackers Bobby Bell and Willie Lanier, and cornerback Emmitt Thomas

Given that the 70s Steelers defense has 4 in Canton that is impressive
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:07 PM   #37
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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True that - five members of the Chiefs Super Bowl IV winning defense are in the HOF.

Defensive tackles Buck Buchanan and Curly Culp, linebackers Bobby Bell and Willie Lanier, and cornerback Emmitt Thomas

Given that the 70s Steelers defense has 4 in Canton that is impressive
The steelers of the 70s should have way more HOFers than they do, LC Greenwood and Donnie Shell to START.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:29 PM   #38
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

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We're never going to agree here, but I don't get your logic.

Again, Brown and Carter had six+ QBs (counting back ups probably closer to nine) throwing to them throughout their careers (compared to Hines' four or maybe five).

If your case for Hines is that he excelled without a premier (or even 'good' QB), then why don't we give the same or extra kudos to Brown/Carter for excelling for the same and then different reasons?

Putting up top-5/10 all-times #s with a variety of QBs clearly demonstrates that no matter who was throwing them the ball they were legit talents.

You can't use ye olde, 'they were only good because of their QBs!' argument. It holds no water since they were good no matter who their QB was.

The likes of Jay Schroeder, Steve Buereline, Jeff Hostetler, Jeff George and Donald Hollas weren't 'hall of very good'. They were 'hall of game managers'.

Likewise for Carter's QBs: (young) Rich Gannon, Mike McMahon, Warren Moon, Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham and Jeff George. (While Moon IS a HoF, he was 38 when he QB'd in MIN. Cunningham was 35. That's 'Hall of being put out to pasture'.)



Tim Brown had nine straight years of 1k+ yards. He missed the 10th by 70 yards. Six of those years came before Rich Gannon was his QB.

Cris Carter had eight straight years of 1k+ yards. Only the last one was with a young Dante Culpepper (and five were pre-Moss).

Hines only cracked 1k+ yards six times.... ever. He did post four straight years from 2001-2004 (three different QBs) and missed 1k by 25 yards from 2005-06.

Different receivers/systems, but Hines BEST season (100+ rec, 1300+ yards, 10+ TD) is something Brown nearly did four times (1994, 95, 97, 99).

Even if you discounted their worst two years (to make up for the 'extra years' they have on Hines), both Brown and Carter's stats are better than Hines'.

Isaac Bruce's two best seasons came before Kurt Warner was his QB.

As for Fitz, two of his best seasons came either without Warner throwing the ball to him (2010) or Warner only playing in 10 games (2005).

In 10 years (to Hines' 13), Fitz already has more TDs than Hines and is less than 800 yds and 150 rec away from catching him in those categories. Based on his track record he will surpass yards this year.

His playoff game logs are sick, too. If you average for the same # of games as Hines played (basically multiply them by 3) they blow Hines out of the water (120 rec, 2100 yards, 27 TD). Even as they are, on a per-game basis, they are superior.

I love me some Hines, but he's the Derek Jeter of the NFL WRs.

You can't let the black and gold bias let you believe he is better than he was.

Still a HoFamer, just not top-10 all time. Maybe top-15.

Here's some logic.

He changed the rules for blocking. We put Mel Blount on a high pedestal for changing the rules so Hines deserve the same.

He's a SB MVP.

Until Santonio, he was really the only sure, consistent WR we had.

Toughest ever.

Greatest blocking WR ever.

And has all WR records on a franchise with 2 HOF WRs.

He's got too many GOAT credentials for certain scenarios to take him off the list.

SI explained these were the reasons why he was on there. Traditional WR stats are great but Hines deserves recognition because he is the greatest non traditional WR ever.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:59 PM   #39
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Default Re: Sports illustrateds "footballs greatest" features right steelers.

No Steeler team made the top 10 for greatest season?! That's messed up.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:13 PM   #40
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No Steeler team made the top 10 for greatest season?! That's messed up.
1978 Steelers were #10

Full list

1. 1985 Bears
2. 1972 Dolphins
3. 1984 49ers
4. 1962 Packers
5. 1989 49ers
6. 1992 Cowboys
7. 2007 Patriots (only non-championship team on the list)
8. 1966 Packers
9. 1991 Redskins
10.1978 Steelers


IMO the 1975 team was the best of the Steelers championship teams (the most talented team that probably would have been favored over any of the other 70s teams was the 1976 team, but not getting to the Super Bowl due to injuries and starting off 1-4 takes them out of the running)

I am more in agreement the NFL's rankings when it ran the America's Game series featuring all Super Bowl winners in 2006 (which leaves out the pre-Super Bowl 1962 Packers, the best team of that dynasty)

01 1972 Miami Dolphins
02 1985 Chicago Bears
03 1978 Pittsburgh Steelers
04 1989 San Francisco 49ers
05 1992 Dallas Cowboys
06 1966 Green Bay Packers
07 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers
08 1984 San Francisco 49ers
09 2004 New England Patriots
10 1976 Oakland Raiders


I think the 1972 Dolphins would lose to the 70s Steelers champs (Steelers gave them a game in the 1972 AFC championship before teh Steelers had Swann, Stallworth, Webster & Lambert). But all you can do is win them all and the only team to do that was the 72 Dolphins.

And FWIW I have not seen team since 2006 that belongs on that list until the Seahawks string some championships together - every team on the America's Game list other than the 85 Bears won multiple championships and the 85 Bears were a force of nature.
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