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Old 02-27-2014, 01:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Population of Known Alien Planets Nearly Doubles as NASA Discovers 715 New Worlds

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Old 02-27-2014, 02:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Population of Known Alien Planets Nearly Doubles as NASA Discovers 715 New Worlds

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What are the travel times?
If the government is involved, I'll die of old age before getting there.
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: Population of Known Alien Planets Nearly Doubles as NASA Discovers 715 New Worlds

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Old 02-27-2014, 04:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Population of Known Alien Planets Nearly Doubles as NASA Discovers 715 New Worlds

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That is still not exactly a ringing endorsement.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: Population of Known Alien Planets Nearly Doubles as NASA Discovers 715 New Worlds

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That is still not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Well it beats the hell out of believing that an invisible man lives in the clouds and watches over everyone on earth (and it's certainly no more unbelievable).
At least one can apply logic to the Ancient Astronaut Theory whereas religion has no logic to it at all and is solely based on faith and dogma.

What I love about the AAT is that it asks nothing of anyone.
There's no dogma, no rituals and it doesn't even suggest that anything it states is a fact of any kind.
All it does is point out various artifacts, histories, texts, drawings, sculptures and mythologies and simply asks: "Do you think it might be possible?"

I like anything that doesn't demand that I follow a specific way of thinking as religion does. I prefer to draw my own conclusions.
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:02 AM   #16
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Default Re: Population of Known Alien Planets Nearly Doubles as NASA Discovers 715 New Worlds

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Well it beats the hell out of believing that an invisible man lives in the clouds and watches over everyone on earth (and it's certainly no more unbelievable).
At least one can apply logic to the Ancient Astronaut Theory whereas religion has no logic to it at all and is solely based on faith and dogma.

What I love about the AAT is that it asks nothing of anyone.
There's no dogma, no rituals and it doesn't even suggest that anything it states is a fact of any kind.
All it does is point out various artifacts, histories, texts, drawings, sculptures and mythologies and simply asks: "Do you think it might be possible?"

I like anything that doesn't demand that I follow a specific way of thinking as religion does. I prefer to draw my own conclusions.
My last post was a dig at religion, rather than AAT.

I think there is some possibility that aliens may have visited Earth in some capacity during human history.

If there is an alien civilisation relatively local to us, and they are technologically more advanced than us, then they will certainly know that this planet exists and what it is made out of, at the very least.

At some point in their history, they would have done what we are doing now, as seen in the OP.

I'd imagine that they would have wanted to take a closer look after finding this planet, just as we would in their situation. Assuming interstellar travel is possible, and they know how, of course.

This is mostly supposition and conjecture though.

If I continue with this conjecture, I could think of what humans would do if we went interstellar, and found a civilisation much less advanced than our own.

In past centuries, we just shot or enslaved them, planted a flag on their land, and plundered it.

At the other extreme, there would also be an urgency to stop these beings from suffering from, or being killed by preventable diseases.

Hence would probably tell them what causes infection, and how to prevent it.

Alcohol is probably the most basic disinfectant, yet we have probably spent more of our history drinking it.

The average life expectancy of ancient Egyptians was around the mid 30's.

Scans on Tutankhamen have shown he had a life threatening infection from a leg fracture, and had also contracted Malaria.

Egypt was also known to have a problem with Small Pox, one of the worst scourges of mankind, the only disease to have ever been declared eradicated, and the very first vaccination was for Small Pox.

This is why I am skeptical of AAT. If we use it to explain how Egyptians built the Pyramids, and could perform some basic brain surgery, for example. Then it leaves us with the problem of how the same civilisation struggled with Malaria and Small Pox, and had a life expectancy of less than 35 years.

There are other things conspicuous in their absence from ancient civlisations; seed planting drills, field crop rotation, etc.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:23 AM   #17
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Default Re: Population of Known Alien Planets Nearly Doubles as NASA Discovers 715 New Worlds

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My last post was a dig at religion, rather than AAT.

I think there is some possibility that aliens may have visited Earth in some capacity during human history.

If there is an alien civilisation relatively local to us, and they are technologically more advanced than us, then they will certainly know that this planet exists and what it is made out of, at the very least.

At some point in their history, they would have done what we are doing now, as seen in the OP.

I'd imagine that they would have wanted to take a closer look after finding this planet, just as we would in their situation. Assuming interstellar travel is possible, and they know how, of course.

This is mostly supposition and conjecture though.

If I continue with this conjecture, I could think of what humans would do if we went interstellar, and found a civilisation much less advanced than our own.

In past centuries, we just shot or enslaved them, planted a flag on their land, and plundered it.

At the other extreme, there would also be an urgency to stop these beings from suffering from, or being killed by preventable diseases.

Hence would probably tell them what causes infection, and how to prevent it.

Alcohol is probably the most basic disinfectant, yet we have probably spent more of our history drinking it.

The average life expectancy of ancient Egyptians was around the mid 30's.

Scans on Tutankhamen have shown he had a life threatening infection from a leg fracture, and had also contracted Malaria.

Egypt was also known to have a problem with Small Pox, one of the worst scourges of mankind, the only disease to have ever been declared eradicated, and the very first vaccination was for Small Pox.

This is why I am skeptical of AAT. If we use it to explain how Egyptians built the Pyramids, and could perform some basic brain surgery, for example. Then it leaves us with the problem of how the same civilisation struggled with Malaria and Small Pox, and had a life expectancy of less than 35 years.

There are other things conspicuous in their absence from ancient civlisations; seed planting drills, field crop rotation, etc.
First of all, I know your last post wasn’t a shot at the AAT.

Here are some things to consider:

Firstly, I think that the concept of worship (and any subsequent religion it may generate) first needs a reason or an event in order for it to exist. I find it difficult to believe that primitive man could have conjured and then embellished a religious worldview out of thin air.
That said, I think the arrival of a spacecraft from which emanates humanoid beings who may have also possessed technologies (or technological abilities) and subsequently demonstrated such (for whatever reasons) would instantly be regarded as “godlike” and a mythology would most definitely ensue.

This is why the AAT’s suggestion that primitive man misinterpreted what they saw as being the basis for religion makes sense to me.

Secondly, if you’re old enough to have watched the original Star Trek series (or if you just know of it ), the “Prime Directive” of non-interference with existing cultures was paramount and perhaps such was true with whomever may have visited this planet thousands of years ago. As such, these visitors may have demonstrated technologies, or imparted knowledge or possibly even manipulated our genetics - not in the direct sense of “Now you can do this”, but rather in the sense of allowing us to develop our own abilities and technologies. This may be considered interference or it may be considered “pointing us in a developmental direction” without seeking a specific result.

This might explain what you pointed out in terms of what the Egyptians either did or did not do with their knowledge.
For example, if an axe was given to a primitive person, he could either use it to cut and shape wood for shelters or other constructs, or he could use it to kill someone. I think if anything was bestowed upon us in the way of knowledge, or technology, or simply in the ability to develop our own technology, it may have been more along the lines of “We’ll give a push but where you go from there is entirely up to you”.

Thirdly. I have been interested in the AAT since I first read “Chariots of the Gods?” way back in the early ‘70’s, so for the record, what I believe is not related to the recent popularity of the television series "Ancient Aliens" but is rather something that I have long believed to be possible. I also like the idea that from it’s title and on throughout the whole book, Von Daniken proudly points out that he uses over 280 question marks.
What he’s saying is that none of his theory assumes anything as fact but rather simply suggests the possibility that our species could have been influenced in some large or small way by extraterrestrial intervention and I think that’s something that’s lost on the critics of the AAT, many of whom ridicule the theory as being purported as "factual" where no such thing is true.
Since neither religious beliefs nor the AAT can be proven to be true accounts of our past, then it satnds to reason that either is just as likely to be true which is why I don’t discount religious dogma altogether (because I can’t say with any certainty that it didn’t happen that way).
But given the logic that can be applied to the AAT as opposed to the illogical nature of religious spirituality – especially in the sense that when challenged for a cause-and-effect relationship between events regarding what is stated and how it could have possibly happened - I favor the AAT because there is a very realistic “connect-the-dots” aspect to it that no religion can match.

Lastly, religious dogma does not explain things but merely repeats stated beliefs and when an event is described that even to a zealot would seem unbelievable, it is conveniently explained as either being the product of "God's will" or a some sort of "miracle".
The AAT, on the other hand, at least TRIES to connect the dots and tries to actually explain the many mysteries and incongruities that exist in our past and tries to show how things could have come to be in some more realistic and tangible way.
I like its curiosity and its unwillingness to simply accept "God's will" and "miracles" as if they were some sort of satisfactory explanation.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:46 AM   #18
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Default Re: Population of Known Alien Planets Nearly Doubles as NASA Discovers 715 New Worlds

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This is why the AAT’s suggestion that primitive man misinterpreted what they saw as being the basis for religion makes sense to me.
Great post. I'm not going to quote all of it because this is the only thing I take a bit of an issue with, but great post.

Back to what I have a minor issue with, though. AAT is interesting and could definitely have elements of truth to it, but it shares my biggest gripe that I have with religion - because we don't know what it was, why it was or who it was built by, it has to be aliens. If you replace 'aliens' with 'God', you have Christianity. It asks a lot of questions, but the answers all lead back to aliens. It doesn't have a lot of room to maneuver or rebuttal.

I believe that aliens have been here in the past. Do I think that religious foundations are built on the principles of extraterrestrial knowledge and intelligence passed down tens of thousands of years ago? No, but I'm not going to say it isn't possible however.

With all the flaws that SETI has, the fact that we haven't found intelligent life yet isn't surprising. In fact, the zoo hypothesis (which you alluded to) makes complete sense to me. If we have to hit a certain level of political, scientific and mathematical intelligence before we're contacted, it ensures that only civilizations worth contacting are, well, contacted.
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