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Old 04-22-2014, 01:07 AM   #21
tony hipchest
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Default Re: 2012 draft

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Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
David DeCastro alone makes the 2012 draft worth it. Even Bill Cowher had drafts where he and the team only got one star player, like 2001 when they got Casey Hampton, and 2005 when they got Heath Miller. And Kelvin Beachum is a bonus regardless of whether he continues to start or not, considering he was drafted in the seventh round.
I would say kelvin is almost just as valuable a the primary backup for five positions as he is as the starting left tackle.

there are not many players in the league who can so quickly learn so many positions and earn the trust of their coaches, no matter what round they are drafted in.

In my mind Chris Hoke was a great player, but if he were drafted in the 2nd round most steelerfans would have hated him and called for his head.
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:08 AM   #22
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Default Re: 2012 draft

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Originally Posted by SteelersCanada View Post
I've already given up on Adams.

Spence's recovery is something I'm very much looking forward to this off season and into the preseason.

DeCastro is going to be a perennial Pro Bowl Guard and Beachum may indeed be the future at LT.
Agreed. All the short arm talk is annoying. You'd swear the guy had like, no toes, or something. Any excuse to just make sure they can get that "expert" criticism in.
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:16 AM   #23
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Default Re: 2012 draft

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Originally Posted by Hawaii 5-0 View Post
wouldn't it have been great if the three would have been DD, Boykin and Wilson?
Indeed.
I always knew that Wilson was a pipedream. I envisioned him taking over for BB in 2016, but I'm happy for him, that he's starting elsewhere.

DD was always my guy. I wanted him as a Steeler for two entire years, and we got him.

Ta'amu was also a guy who I watched for over a year, and I thought was going to go R1; I thought that I'd have to choose between him & DD (which was no choice: DD all the way). Then, he injured his shoulder, and fell. I thought it would be him or Spence in R2.

Mike Adams surprised me. And, at that point, I figured that both Spence & Ta'amu were goners. So, when the Steelers got both of them, I swore that it was the best draft ever. Alas...

Boykin would (obviously) have been the better choice (especially over Ta'amu), but I still think that Spence would have been one of the best players in that draft. You can't predict injuries, and I'd pick Spence a hundred times out of a hundred chances.
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:25 AM   #24
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Default Re: 2012 draft

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
No.

what if he is good enough and cheap enough to make the 53 man roster as a suitable back up?I think you are trigger happy to shitcan him just because he was a second round pick and did not live up to your expectations.
Yeah, well, that's part of it. Living up to the expectations of your employer.
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:54 AM   #25
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Default Re: 2012 draft

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actually it is like saying you are having a knee jerk reaction.when it comes to 2nd round picks there is a HUGE difference between canadian football players like lima sweet & ricardo coakley as opposed to NFL starters such as kraig urbick.

But I get it. You have made your bold prediction/analysis that mike Adams is nothing more than a bust/bum and now you gotta stick to your guns.

if he is a solid back up at 2 positions I am fine with that regardless what round he was drafted in, just like I am fine with beachum being a starter as a seventh rounder.

are you really suggesting we shit can a backup just because of the round they were drafted in and then replace them with another draft pick? That doesn't make much sense if they prove to be capable.

That's like throwing the baby out with the bath water just because the baby is ugly.
You have it backwards, Tony. Adams lost his job to a 7th round rookie who outperformed him to the point where it's almost laughable.

I have a problem with the Adams pick because of the value of the pick. Second round picks aren't used to be viable backups, they're used to be impact players. Le'Veon Bell and LaMarr Woodley jump to mind immediately. If we're looking for quality depth players, we're looking passed the fifth round. How much does it sting to say we could have and should have had Lavonte David playing next to Timmons instead of a Tackle who will likely never amount to having a significant role on this team?

I don't want to be this guy, but at this point, he isn't even a solid backup. When he came in for relief of Beachum, our offensive line took a nosedive in terms of quality.

I get holding out hope for him. Is it too early to say he's a bust? Maybe, maybe not. Until he shows he can be anything more than a mauler in the run game, he's a tremendous bust. For the value of the pick, who we left on the board and what he's produced thus far, saying he's a bust isn't only fair -- it's accurate.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:06 AM   #26
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Default Re: 2012 draft

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Like how I got a Blues reference in there for ya?

I think quality is when we see Adams take over at one of the OT spots. The kid honestly has the ability to be a pro bowler if he wants to and is coached up. At worst, I always said he would be a solid RT for a decade in the NFL and still believe it.
Blues references are always welcome.

If Adams isn't the starting Tackle coming out of camp and into the preseason, what happens then?
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:18 AM   #27
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Default Re: 2012 draft

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How much does it sting to say we could have and should have had Lavonte David playing next to Timmons instead of a Tackle who will likely never amount to having a significant role on this team?

.
it doesnt sting at all because it is just your opinion, and one i dont agree with.

everything you write about 2nd round picks sounds great on paper, but it amounts to nothing more than a bunch of crying over spilt milk.

the draft is not an exact science, which is why so many 2nd round picks across the league flame out (the highest percentage of all rounds).

do you want to tell me how bad alonzo jackson, limas sweed, and ricardo colclough are as well?

if adams isnt cut to be a starter then so be it. i will chalk it up as a loss from 2-3 years ago, but you speak of him like he CANNOT improve with absolute certainty.

even qualified experts dont speak in such absolutes.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:24 AM   #28
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Default Re: 2012 draft

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Yeah, well, that's part of it. Living up to the expectations of your employer.
I remember Bill Cowher saying something about how once drafted, the round that a player was drafted in, mattered little to him. He fielded the best player, despite the round selected.

(Of course, Bill also overlooked Hines Ward for a few years, demanding that Troy Edwards get more playing time... but, let's pretend that that momentary lack of judgement never occurred. )

Also, fiscally speaking, due to signing bonuses, it's easier to cut a R7 pick than to cut a R2 pick... but, aside from that, most coaches field the best twenty-two (regardless of round drafted).
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:28 AM   #29
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Default Re: 2012 draft

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
it doesnt sting at all because it is just your opinion, and one i dont agree with.

everything you write about 2nd round picks sounds great on paper, but it amounts to nothing more than a bunch of crying over spilt milk.

the draft is not an exact science, which is why so many 2nd round picks across the league flame out (the highest percentage of all rounds).

do you want to tell me how bad alonzo jackson, limas sweed, and ricardo colclough are as well?

if adams isnt cut to be a starter then so be it. i will chalk it up as a loss from 2-3 years ago, but you speak of him like he CANNOT improve with absolute certainty.

even qualified experts dont speak in such absolutes.
Lavonte David: 145 Tackles, 7 sacks, 5 INTs.

Mike Adams: lost his job to a 7th round rookie Tackle due to his poor productivity on the field.

It's not an opinion here. Our defense could have used that kind of production last season. You could very easily make the case that Guy Whimper was more productive -- numbers would back this up in terms of hurries, sacks allowed -- than Adams was when on the field. That's a problem, Tony. Rationalize and categorize it how you will, but this is a problem.

I speak in certainties when it comes to Adams and his ability to improve because he hasn't yet. Chalk this up to having different offensive line coaches, different schemes or the unfortunate off field event in which set him back, but DeCastro seems to be doing just fine under similar circumstances.

I don't understand your logic. So, because second round picks flame out, I can't be upset that a second round pick flamed out? Adams was a wasted draft pick, and it stings even more considering who we could've had. Do you think our defense could have used David's production last season?

When your second round pick can't amount to anything more than a Tight End in a jumbo set, you can be upset. It's why Sweed still catches shit from us. When you're drafted in the second round, you're expected to produce. It's like saying if Bell flames out we can't be mad because, oh darn, second round picks flame out.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:51 AM   #30
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Default Re: 2012 draft

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Lavonte David: 145 Tackles, 7 sacks, 5 INTs.
1. I hear your point: instead of Adams, they could have drafted "_____."

2. I truly don't think it would have been David, because (IMO) Spence was the better prospect.

3. James Harrison took four years to figure things out. Wes Welker & Yancey Thigpen were both cut (by the Chargers) and ended up being Pro Bowl caliber players. In other words, in two years, our thoughts very well could be that Mike Adams was actually a very good choice to have made.
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