John Kerry

[sumo]

The thing scaring me right now is it seems like the country is just "floating" - The lame duck pres terms of Reagan and Clinton were racked with scandals - I don't even think Clinton met with his cabinet the whole last year he was in office and Reagan had the Iran contra - but yet the feeling of uneasiness and insecurity seems way more intense right now then it ever did back then ...

[HometownGal]

Originally Posted by sumo

The thing scaring me right now is it seems like the country is just "floating" - The lame duck pres terms of Reagan and Clinton were racked with scandals - I don't even think Clinton met with his cabinet the whole last year he was in office and Reagan had the Iran contra - but yet the feeling of uneasiness and insecurity seems way more intense right now then it ever did back then ...

Reagan and Clinton didn't encounter a terrorist attack like 911 during their terms in office, either. I can't answer for everyone else, but honestly - I feel more relaxed and secure living in the good ol' U.S. of A than I have felt in a long time. Bush most definitely has his faults (which President didn't?) and I don't agree with everything he does or has done, but the one thing I am certain of is that obviously, someone got the message that this country will stand up to terrorists and protect its people to the best of its ability.

[lamberts-lost-tooth]

Originally Posted by Hines0wnz

He has made mistakes but considering how he was handed a shit economy and then we get attacked 9 months into his term, he has done okay. Bill Clinton was pretty worthless as it turns out but no one in the MSM will ever admit to that.

Yet still placed on a pedastal...without a track record of success...can anyone say Barack Obama?...I guess young and prominant is all it takes to equal success for some.

[Mosca]

Must... not... engage....





Tom

[floodcitygirl]

I'm thinking that if we're here already, it's gonna be a loooonnnngggggg off season! LOL!

[sumo]

Originally Posted by HometownGal

Reagan and Clinton didn't encounter a terrorist attack like 911 during their terms in office, either. I can't answer for everyone else, but honestly - I feel more relaxed and secure living in the good ol' U.S. of A than I have felt in a long time. Bush most definitely has his faults (which President didn't?) and I don't agree with everything he does or has done, but the one thing I am certain of is that obviously, someone got the message that this country will stand up to terrorists and protect its people to the best of its ability.

I should have clarified more - when I met insecurity I wasn't referring to terrorist attacks - I was referring to the general uneasiness and lack of direction - I'm pretty neutral on Bush as a pres -I think he's done some good things, IMHO, his second term has just been strange - and I don't get a real warm and fuzzy feeling seeing Nancy Pelosi swarn in as Speaker of the House either...hard to explain, but I definetly do not share the same "relaxed and secure" feelings you do...I liked the mix of donkey in the whitehouse and elephants in congress --I really couldn't stand Clinton as a human being - and yes it's ok to require our pres to have strong moral character -- but I liked the mix of him in the white house and republicans with control of congress - it seemed to work well from a legislative/getting good things done standpoint - of course both sides want to take credit on their own -- now I'm rambling...

[sumo]

Originally Posted by Mosca

Must... not... engage....





Tom

Come on Tom!! - the water's warm - what would a political argument be without your input?!

[Mosca]

Originally Posted by sumo

I liked the mix of donkey in the whitehouse and elephants in congress I liked the mix of [Clinton] in the white house and republicans with control of congress - it seemed to work well from a legislative/getting good things done standpoint

I agree.

And, I already argued all this stuff already. Going over it again is a waste of energy. There are new eggs to fry, and they've only had a week and there is nothing to criticize yet. We're digging up the past. Kerry, Clinton, Coulter... old news. Give the new folks some time, let's wait for something fresh to tear to shreds. I want blood and Hines0wnz is giving me dried beef jerky!

I can hardly wait to see what becomes of our new Representative Chris Carney, who defeated my employer Don Sherwood. He is a Dem who was on the committee that validated the reports of WMD... that should be fun.

Don himself, well he got defeated because he pulled a Clinton and believe me, voters think local. That didn't go over well here in ultraconservative NE PA. Which is too bad, because Don is more of a realist and compromiser than he is a hard liner. He did well for the district. We were better off with him. He could have been congressman for life if he'd kept it zippered.


Tom

[Hines0wnz]

Originally Posted by Mosca

And, I already argued all this stuff already. Going over it again is a waste of energy. There are new eggs to fry, and they've only had a week and there is nothing to criticize yet. We're digging up the past. Kerry, Clinton, Coulter... old news. Give the new folks some time, let's wait for something fresh to tear to shreds. I want blood and Hines0wnz is giving me dried beef jerky!

My apologies for not giving you something better to chew on...yet. I have primarily been on here for game chat when I stumbled upon on this lovely forum. Some of it stirred my interests as I had been on other sites for political discussions. Now I have a new sandbox to play in!

[Mosca]

Originally Posted by Hines0wnz

My apologies for not giving you something better to chew on...yet. I have primarily been on here for game chat when I stumbled upon on this lovely forum. Some of it stirred my interests as I had been on other sites for political discussions. Now I have a new sandbox to play in!

That's cool. I hope to find you a worthy sounding board. Be forewarned though, that I prefer original thought to regurgitated nonsense. Quoting Ann Coulter is nowhere near as much fun as looking at what people in government (or news otherwise) have said and done, and then giving your interpretation; what you liked about it, what you thought was totally idiotic, etc.

I NEVER mind being disagreed with. Sometimes folks have changed my mind, or at least opened my eyes to another side of an issue. Most issues are problems because they defy easy solutions. That is why compromise (rather than unilateral fiat ala Coulter et al) has worked so well over the past 225 years; folks on both sides have taken the time to see why their opposites feel the way they do, and then they accomodate them.

For example; Bush wants to send more troops to Iraq, but Congress is threatening to withhold funding. Tough one; man, everyone wants to win this thing, but is more troops the answer? If we do it will it work? Is the human cost worth it if it doesn't? I don't have an answer. Maybe more troops would have worked in the beginning, but I don't see it right now. But wth do I know. My take is that Iraq has been hopelessly bungled from the start, and may very well turn out to be the worst debacle in the history of our nation. And I don't mean that from a "stand-off-to-the-side hate the US international sense"; I mean that this war has seriously damaged our self interests and self preservation as a global political force. I certainly hope it has not. But that is not for you nor I to decide, only history will tell.


Tom