The Non Smack Version of Who Is the Best QB in the AFC-N

[BengalBrian]

Originally Posted by Preacher

However, Ben will have more SB rings. Why? Because the way the Bengals handle themselves, they do not have the ability to keep it together through the long haul. I do hope that changes. But until you all get a owner, FO, and coach that DEMANDS discipline on AND OFF the field, you will continue to have problems.

And that is my non-smack honest answer.

Fair enough... But do you think the number of superbowl trophies a QB has makes them a better QB? I dont.. Now.. If Ben goes on to win 10 superbowls, chances are he is better than Carson.. But he will have to do much more than he is doing to do that.... Carson just needs a defense

[Mosca]

I think that for 2 of his 3 seasons Roethlisberger has shown himself to be an excellent quarterback, with a good arm, toughness, and good game sense. It is just as unfair to rate him below Palmer solely on last season as it is to rate him ahead of Palmer based on SB trophies.

Honestly, it's too early in Ben's career to make the comparison. He hasn't matured into whatever type of talent he is going to be. You know I have a lot of respect for Carson Palmer. Palmer has developed into a quality player. Roethlisberger has the potential to develop into a player that may be as good or better.


Skillset, right now: Palmer.
Potential for development: Roethlisberger.
Proven value over career: NcNair.


If I needed to win one game tomorrow, and all the other players are the current Steelers (disregarding things like chemistry, learning plays, etc): Palmer.

If I wanted to win as many championships as possible over the next 10 years: Roethlisberger.

Tom

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by BengalBrian

Fair enough... But do you think the number of superbowl trophies a QB has makes them a better QB? I dont.. Now.. If Ben goes on to win 10 superbowls, chances are he is better than Carson.. But he will have to do much more than he is doing to do that.... Carson just needs a defense

No, I don't think winning a SB is a mark of a better qb. However, it does reflect well on a QB. Especially if they win two or three. Sure, an ok QB can win one SB. But only very good QB's lead thier teams to two/three/four qbs.

Remember, there are plenty of teams that have very good offenses.. Defenses.. but they don't win the SB. It takes a good QB to go through the year, and win teh SB.

Look at Ben last year... he had a very good year. Sure, he didn't play well in teh SB... but HE got them to the SB.

[stlrtruck]

BB you keep going back to this past year to develop your argument. I'm sorry but because a QB has one bad year, it doesn't make him a bad QB. Look at Roethlisberger's first 3 years. He was undefeated as a starter until the AFCCG. Yes he was only asked to control the game and not lose it. But isn't the sign of a good QB one that can manage the game and still bring home the W?

And isn't the objective of any off season to score more points than the defense gives up? So by Ben having success off the defense's success - isn't that just his job? Carson should be able to do the same thing but has he?

[Livinginthe past]

Im going to vote Carson on this one.

I really liked Ben as the 2nd best QB in the NFL before the start of last season, but his career has taken a sharp nosedive as a result of many factors.

Having a 'game manger' is ok - as long as he able to reassert his teams authority if things fail to go according to plan - last year Ben failed pretty miserably to bring his team back into games that had reached 'plan B' stage.

Ben certainly has alot of good traits, but last year exposed alot of other problems that weren't an issue when the Steelers were going 15-1 on the back of him throwing 20 times a game - he tries to make too many plays instead of throwing the ball away for example.

These problems can be ironed out with experience, I think.

Carson took a step back last year, and again the effects of the injury shouldn't be ignored - for a fairly rigid pocket passer pocket security is everything - Carson will probably be alot happier and confident in the pocket this year.

McNair is still a decent QB but his star is fading, I dont think i've been as disappointed with a QB performance in the postseason as I was his this year against the Colts - he was anti-clutch.

Both the Bengals and Steelers should be happy with their choices at QB, they are both on course for successful careers.

NM

[BengalBrian]

Originally Posted by stlrtruck

BB you keep going back to this past year to develop your argument. I'm sorry but because a QB has one bad year, it doesn't make him a bad QB. Look at Roethlisberger's first 3 years. He was undefeated as a starter until the AFCCG. Yes he was only asked to control the game and not lose it. But isn't the sign of a good QB one that can manage the game and still bring home the W?

And isn't the objective of any off season to score more points than the defense gives up? So by Ben having success off the defense's success - isn't that just his job? Carson should be able to do the same thing but has he?

Just keep in mind, I never said Ben was a bad quarterback.. Well.. I am sure I have in the smack section, but if you do your research, you will find I was a fan of Ben before he was a steeler and I have said plenty of times he is a good QB. BUT.. I just think Carson is better.. Carson cant do the same thing as Ben with the defense we have. Dont go comparing your defense to ours.. Not even close

Originally Posted by Livinginthe past

Im going to vote Carson on this one.

I really liked Ben as the 2nd best QB in the NFL before the start of last season, but his career has taken a sharp nosedive as a result of many factors.

Having a 'game manger' is ok - as long as he able to reassert his teams authority if things fail to go according to plan - last year Ben failed pretty miserably to bring his team back into games that had reached 'plan B' stage.

Ben certainly has alot of good traits, but last year exposed alot of other problems that weren't an issue when the Steelers were going 15-1 on the back of him throwing 20 times a game - he tries to make too many plays instead of throwing the ball away for example.

These problems can be ironed out with experience, I think.

Carson took a step back last year, and again the effects of the injury shouldn't be ignored - for a fairly rigid pocket passer pocket security is everything - Carson will probably be alot happier and confident in the pocket this year.

McNair is still a decent QB but his star is fading, I dont think i've been as disappointed with a QB performance in the postseason as I was his this year against the Colts - he was anti-clutch.

Both the Bengals and Steelers should be happy with their choices at QB, they are both on course for successful careers.

NM

Great post.. And yes, they both took a step backwards this year, and they both have a lot more potential

[BOXCAR JOEY]

Ok so im going back to big ben's game saving ankel tackle. How many NFL QB's would have even attempted to make an effort to stop a run. I can't name many. Most certainly palmer or mcnair wouldn't. They would be worrying about getting hurt and blow the game. Thats why Ben is the man.

[lamberts-lost-tooth]

Originally Posted by Mosca

I think that for 2 of his 3 seasons Roethlisberger has shown himself to be an excellent quarterback, with a good arm, toughness, and good game sense. It is just as unfair to rate him below Palmer solely on last season as it is to rate him ahead of Palmer based on SB trophies.

Honestly, it's too early in Ben's career to make the comparison. He hasn't matured into whatever type of talent he is going to be. You know I have a lot of respect for Carson Palmer. Palmer has developed into a quality player. Roethlisberger has the potential to develop into a player that may be as good or better.


Skillset, right now: Palmer.
Potential for development: Roethlisberger.
Proven value over career: NcNair.


If I needed to win one game tomorrow, and all the other players are the current Steelers (disregarding things like chemistry, learning plays, etc): Palmer.

If I wanted to win as many championships as possible over the next 10 years: Roethlisberger.

Tom

Excellent points Mosca...and that criteria is what I am Picking Ben on.....20 years from now..noone is going to look back and say...."Ben won "X" amount of playoffs and 'X' amount of superbowls..BUT Carson Palmer may have had more than a average career if he would have played for a better team.
It may not be fair..But the END result is what people will judge them by...and Ben will have the better career....If Carson wants to have a chance to be what he is capable of..he needs to say goodbye to Marvin Lewis and the Bengals...(and that is not smack...but reality)

[BengalBrian]

Originally Posted by BOXCAR JOEY

Ok so im going back to big ben's game saving ankel tackle. How many NFL QB's would have even attempted to make an effort to stop a run. I can't name many. Most certainly palmer or mcnair wouldn't. They would be worrying about getting hurt and blow the game. Thats why Ben is the man.

I think any quarterback would try to make that play. What do you base this off of? I certainly do not think McNair is afraid of getting hurt if you know anything about his past

[stlrtruck]

BB I'm not saying that you're talking about Ben being a bad QB. I understand the question. And I'm not comparing defenses either...I know the Steelers defense is better - much better (but that's a different thread) - but as a QB you're job is to take advantage of what your defense gives you - I don't remember Carson being able to do that. Yes he's put together some great drives but overall, he hasn't been that game winner that I've seen Ben be. For example - the playoff run 2 years ago - who was responsible for those deep throws? Ben.

So until Carson starts winning the games when they matter, I'll have to agree to disagree that Ben is the better QB.