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Old 04-04-2007, 09:30 PM   #11
Livinginthe past
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Default Re: Prospecting for Draft Day "Sleepers"

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Originally Posted by SteelCzar76 View Post
Limitations as a product of scheme are one thing. Simply lacking the natural abilty to do certain things is another. Ike is in excellent condition for a cornerback. He has great size, speed and quick reflexes. HOWEVER,......'ball skills and awareness' (though they can be somewhat refined by coaching and or training.),.....are for the most part particular 'skills' or talents if you will,.... that are 'god given'. (Either you have them or you don't)

What i mean is this,.....you can look like a singer. You can dress like a singer. You can receive lessons and or tutalege from the greatest vocal coaches in the world. But in the end,......if you just don't have the "voice",......you are karaoke.

And now that i think about it,....how absurd is it to discuss any shortcomings of this team with the 'Enemy' ? LOL (And yes that means you,... "Brady Lover")
You know, I agree with the evaluation of players that appear to have it all but are missing the vital element of a 'football brain'.

As has been said before, your D is only as strong as its weakest link - if the pass rush is ineffective and is giving the QB all day then your DB's are going to get exposed.

Ike does get the match up against the oppositions premier WR - I presume that happens for a reason.

I never really doubted Cowhers ability to diagnose talent, its just that he wasn't always able to maximise its potential.

Any time you want to discuss the short comings of the Patriots i'd be more than happy to oblige
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Old 04-04-2007, 10:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Prospecting for Draft Day "Sleepers"

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You know, I agree with the evaluation of players that appear to have it all but are missing the vital element of a 'football brain'.

As has been said before, your D is only as strong as its weakest link - if the pass rush is ineffective and is giving the QB all day then your DB's are going to get exposed.

Ike does get the match up against the oppositions premier WR - I presume that happens for a reason.

I never really doubted Cowhers ability to diagnose talent, its just that he wasn't always able to maximise its potential.

Any time you want to discuss the short comings of the Patriots i'd be more than happy to oblige


I'm a man,....i will take my 'charge' Pats. (LOL) Certainly our pass rush was not quite as 'effective' as it was suppossed to have been.
But i think that is more of a matter of us being so dependant on the 'scheme' catching our opponents off guard. Because we lack the sheer 'talent' to line up and overwhelm our opponents.
In other words if you can keep up with what we throw at you,.....we are 'dead in the water' in regards to getting to the oppossing QB. Hamp and Aaron though exceptional players whom could give a great account of themselves on any team,.......can not do it all by themselves up front on the D-line.
Keisel is a solid player,.....but is absoloutely a non factor in regards to 'pressure'. (Though he's exceptional in coverage for his size and plays the run well)
The linebackers IMO did their jobs for the most part last season. It was big plays given up in the secondary in regards to completions that kept us on the field. It was big plays given up by the secondary that gave up points and put us in the position very often to have to play 'shootout'. ( The Falcons game being the greatest example of such lunacy)

Ike is matched up with our opponents 1 receiver,...not because he should be,....it's because we have no other option. And he is unfortunately the 'lesser poison' of a very, very mediocre corps of DB's.

IMO Coach Cowher's greatest strength was his ability to get many crops of 'inexpensive' marginal players to maximize whatever potential they had to a great degree of success. (This was and is'nt the problem with Ike and the other 'guests' on our roster)

The bottom line is,......sometimes in regards to team sports,..... it's just a matter of some personel just simply not being able to fulfill their duties. (No matter how much you would like to believe otherwise)

Oh and BTW,......i greatly look forward to the next 'Patriots' thread. LOL
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Old 04-04-2007, 11:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: Prospecting for Draft Day "Sleepers"

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It was big plays given up by the secondary that gave up points and put us in the position very often to have to play 'shootout'. ( The Falcons game being the greatest example of such lunacy)

Ike is matched up with our opponents 1 receiver,...not because he should be,....it's because we have no other option. And he is unfortunately the 'lesser poison' of a very, very mediocre corps of DB's.
trou polamalu was drafted with the intentions of shutting down players like todd heap in our division. how come he got abused by a. crumpler in that falcons game? that is either on troy or the coaching staff. i cant put any blood on ikes hands for that one.

one would think chad johnson is a scrub, the way ike constantly shuts him down one on one.

there were about 5 td's scored on our db's last year that would only be completions about 1 out of every 10 times. too many times i saw a perfect throw, and a miracle catch, with out db's in perfect, textbook, blanket coverage.

polamalu is above average, and lebeaus scheme has prevented mcfadden or a. smith the opportunity to even prove if they are average or not. i see nothing in this years 1st round cb prospects that suggests they are the next deangello hall. id rather go for a "sleeper" than to reach for a replacement for a player we dont even know needs replaced (ike or troy)
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Old 04-05-2007, 06:31 AM   #14
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Default Re: Prospecting for Draft Day "Sleepers"

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trou polamalu was drafted with the intentions of shutting down players like todd heap in our division. how come he got abused by a. crumpler in that falcons game? that is either on troy or the coaching staff. i cant put any blood on ikes hands for that one.

one would think chad johnson is a scrub, the way ike constantly shuts him down one on one.

there were about 5 td's scored on our db's last year that would only be completions about 1 out of every 10 times. too many times i saw a perfect throw, and a miracle catch, with out db's in perfect, textbook, blanket coverage.

polamalu is above average, and lebeaus scheme has prevented mcfadden or a. smith the opportunity to even prove if they are average or not. i see nothing in this years 1st round cb prospects that suggests they are the next deangello hall. id rather go for a "sleeper" than to reach for a replacement for a player we dont even know needs replaced (ike or troy)


As i'm sure you are aware of Tone. I've never said that any of this drafts particular cornerbacks are neccessarily potential 'Hall of Famers'.LOL
But i'm almost certain that at least several will go on to be far better Corners than Ike whom as you remember was not neccessarily productive in college,.....but was instead one of Colbert's 'diamond in the Rough' workout warrior selections.
Troy is another story. Troy was never a pure coverage safety going back to SC. But he not only has great physical tools. He is a 'football player' whom has performed at an elite level since childhood. (There is no way Ike can even be mentioned in the same breath with him.)IMO
Bottom line Troy just had an average season. But he unquestionably has the abilty to play at a higher level. As far as Ike,.....i'm not so sure.
Unlike B-Mac and Anthony Smith,......he's seen enough action to know whether or not he's 'got it'. And imo simply playing well against a slightly overated Chad Johnson on a few occassions is not that impressive to me.
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Old 04-05-2007, 01:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: Prospecting for Draft Day "Sleepers"

http://nfl.com/draft/story/10110092

Looking for this draft's Marques Colston


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(April 5, 2007) -- Last year, the New Orleans Saints hit it big late in the seventh round of the draft when they took a chance on a wide receiver from Hofstra named Marques Colston.

Colston was at the Scouting Combine but didn't distinguish himself. His Division I-AA college film made him look like a free-agent prospect. One scout said he played at the outside receiver spot in a run-and-shoot-type offense and wasn't much of a playmaker. Another scout read back his report to me the other day and it said "inconsistent hands." A third personnel man said Colston was the 29th wide receiver on his team's board. Heck, the Saints themselves took wide receiver Mike Hass in the sixth round and he was supposed to be the rookie wide receiver while Colston filled out the camp roster and hopefully got a practice-squad spot in September.


Marques Colston's Combine performance didn't indicate how good a pro he'd be.
For the record, at the Combine, Colston ran a 4.53 in the 40-yard dash and a very pedestrian 4.43 short shuttle, but he did have a 37-inch vertical jump, a 10-foot-3 broad jump and a 6.94 three-cone drill at 6-4?, 224 pounds. He had enough to work with but had to hear 251 names before his was called. He finished his rookie season with more Rookie of the Year votes than his teammate, Reggie Bush, the draft's No. 2 overall pick. Teams around the league are hoping they find this year's Marques Colston -- a sleeper, if you will!

A true sleeper is a player that is probably from a Division I-AA school or smaller and will fall to the seventh round because no one is convinced he can do it on the NFL level. No one thought Jim Finn from the University of Pennsylvania could play in the NFL. The Bears took him with the last pick in the 1999 draft, cut him during camp, and eight seasons later he's still starting in the NFL. The scout who finds the next Marques Colston could also find his career take off a year or two later.

Here are some sleeper candidates with a chance to be the 2007 Colston award-winner:

Jacoby Jones, WR, Lane College: Jones is 6-2, 210 pounds with 4.5 speed in the 40. He had 200 receptions and 21 touchdowns.

Kevin Boss, TE, Western Oregon: Boss is 6-6?, 253 pounds with 4.7 speed. He had 134 receptions and 19 touchdowns.

Michael Allen, TE, Whitworth: Allen is 6-6, 255 pounds with 4.7 speed. He had 118 receptions and 29 touchdowns.

Daren Stone, S, Maine: Stone is 6-3, 218 pounds with great leaping ability. He also had an 11-foot broad jump and a 39-inch vertical jump.

Justin Durant, LB, Hampton: Durant is 6-0, 230 pounds with 4.6 speed. He had 353 tackles, including 47 for a loss and 12 sacks.

David Ball, WR, New Hampshire: Ball is no secret with 299 receptions and 62 touchdowns.

Corey Graham, CB, New Hampshire: Graham is a returner who had a broken leg this year but was a tackling machine.

Laurent Robinson, WR, Illinois State: Robinson is 6-2, 199 pounds with 4.38 speed. His 6.55 in the three-cone drill was one of the best this year.

Finally, what makes the NFL great and a place where nothing should surprise you is that last year when I did a piece on sleepers, I didn't have Colston on the list. So, is this year's sleeper still deeply embedded in the draft class?
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Old 04-05-2007, 05:39 PM   #16
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Default Re: Prospecting for Draft Day "Sleepers"

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
http://nfl.com/draft/story/10110092

Looking for this draft's Marques Colston



Touche' Tone. (But you do realize that i will not budge on this right ?)
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Old 04-05-2007, 06:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Prospecting for Draft Day "Sleepers"

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Touche' Tone. (But you do realize that i will not budge on this right ?)
lol. no, that wasnt my response to your post. i didnt want to start a new thread that so closely resembled this one for the latest kirwan article. (i am curious if you think ike should be cut, benched or traded).

it seems this years cb crop might be weak like last years wr crop was. id hate to reach for a cb at 15 just cause he fills a perceived need. but if the steelers have a cb ranked 5th on their board and he falls to 15 then we really cant pass him up for someone ranked lower who fills a perceived need. last year i wanted mangold or l. white over a wr who would be #3 on the depth chart. but i never bemoaned the pick once the pick was made.
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Old 04-05-2007, 08:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Prospecting for Draft Day "Sleepers"

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lol. no, that wasnt my response to your post. i didnt want to start a new thread that so closely resembled this one for the latest kirwan article. (i am curious if you think ike should be cut, benched or traded).

it seems this years cb crop might be weak like last years wr crop was. id hate to reach for a cb at 15 just cause he fills a perceived need. but if the steelers have a cb ranked 5th on their board and he falls to 15 then we really cant pass him up for someone ranked lower who fills a perceived need. last year i wanted mangold or l. white over a wr who would be #3 on the depth chart. but i never bemoaned the pick once the pick was made.

That's a tough one Tone.(regarding Ike) I wouldn't cut him,.... but i would definetly bring in a young collegiately productive press coverage corner to 'push him' at the very least. (This would also allow Coclough to seek his fortune elswhere)
It's not that i think he (Ike) is a below average per se,.....it's just that i don't think he's a guy whom can be depended on to play on the 'island' with good consistencey.

And if you have average corners you will need two exceptional safetys and a good pass rush off the 'ends' to compensate.
And it's my opinion that it would be easier to find at least one stud at that position (corner) as oppossed to having to 'stock' so many other positions just to simply 'break even' so to speak.
Which brings me to the question of whether or not any of this years corners would be a reach at 15 or whether we should draft one at all in the first.
IMO Chris Houston would'nt be a reach 15. (If anything he may go earlier) Though granted,.... that's IF Carriker, Willis and Anderson are already off of the board.

There are so many possibilties. I checked out Alaika Francis and was impressed but i didn't think he was even on our radar. Until to my surprise i read here that we were showing interest ?! Which means we could possibly trade down in the first take the best available player and him in the second ????

I also agree with you about our pick last year,.....as i thought the receiver class was very weak then. But,...it seems that we got one of only two whom will become impact players.
Hopefully,....we can have the same fortune in this years Draft no matter whom Colbert and co decide to select.
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Old 04-06-2007, 02:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: Prospecting for Draft Day "Sleepers"

Bottom line: With this teams needs, and the money and picks already committed to the CB position, you can pretty much forget CB in rd 1-3.

But I certainly appreciate lines like "Very mediocre corps of DB's"

Especially since these same DB's (minus Hope) were on a SB winning team 18 months ago that finished the season as the 4th best defense overall.
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Old 04-06-2007, 05:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Prospecting for Draft Day "Sleepers"

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Bottom line: With this teams needs, and the money and picks already committed to the CB position, you can pretty much forget CB in rd 1-3.

But I certainly appreciate lines like "Very mediocre corps of DB's"

Especially since these same DB's (minus Hope) were on a SB winning team 18 months ago that finished the season as the 4th best defense overall.


So what your are saying is,...simply because we won a World Title,...our Db's are elite (or even near as such) players as individuals ????
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