Randy Moss To The Patriots?

[fansince'76]

Originally Posted by Livinginthe past

Most of us think that the contract is water tight and low risk - the 1 year nature means that, even if you don't buy into the 'New Randy Moss' talk, he will at least be motivated to put up a good performance to earn his next and probably last big contract.

Do you think the Randy Moss deal is a one-year thing, even if things turn out well and he keeps his mouth shut and behaves? I doubt Moss is gonna be willing to play for a substantially reduced salary for long.

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by fansince'76

Do you think the Randy Moss deal is a one-year thing, even if things turn out well and he keeps his mouth shut and behaves? I doubt Moss is gonna be willing to play for a substantially reduced salary for long.

True...

But then there is this question....


....with all the changes in the Patriot team, even if they win a fourth... can they be considered a dynasty, seeing as how they have changed/lost so many players from the first and even second SB win?

[fansince'76]

Originally Posted by Preacher

True...

But then there is this question....


....with all the changes in the Patriot team, even if they win a fourth... can they be considered a dynasty, seeing as how they have changed/lost so many players from the first and even second SB win?

I think so - 4 in 7 years? The 49ers won 4 in 9 years in the 80's and the only real constants from the beginning to the end of their run were Bill Walsh, Joe Montana and Ronnie Lott. Yeah, Seifert was the coach for the 4th, but it was still Walsh's team.

[tony hipchest]

the pats have crated a perfect situation. for less money than branch alone they have bought 2 better wr's with significantly more talent and upside who will both be playing for not only a champ but for a job.

you can say they havent even cashed in on the seattle pick yet. they used #24 on merriweather but it gave them the liberty to use #28 on moss AND secure what is likely to be an even higher 1st round pick next year. before tall the free agent signings on free agent wr's there was speculation the pats would use one of their 1st rounders on a wr anyways.

there is definitely a starting job open with the pats, and it should motivate all the wr's to try and play even harder. whoever wins it will be better than branch (glorified givens/patten) and will be paid. i look at moss sticking with the pats, just like t.o. has stuck with the cowboys (despite any minor distractions or problems) the pats would be giddy if they get last years t.o. production out of moss.

if the pats win 4 in 7 years, i think they got to be considered a dynasty just like the steelers or 49ers, but not a greater dynasty.

steelers still got the greatest football dynasty sewn up.

[lamberts-lost-tooth]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

the pats have crated a perfect situation. for less money than branch alone they have bought 2 better wr's with significantly more talent and upside who will both be playing for not only a champ but for a job.

you can say they havent even cashed in on the seattle pick yet. they used #24 on merriweather but it gave them the liberty to use #28 on moss AND secure what is likely to be an even higher 1st round pick next year. before tall the free agent signings on free agent wr's there was speculation the pats would use one of their 1st rounders on a wr anyways.

there is definitely a starting job open with the pats, and it should motivate all the wr's to try and play even harder. whoever wins it will be better than branch (glorified givens/patten) and will be paid. i look at moss sticking with the pats, just like t.o. has stuck with the cowboys (despite any minor distractions or problems) the pats would be giddy if they get last years t.o. production out of moss.

if the pats win 4 in 7 years, i think they got to be considered a dynasty just like the steelers or 49ers, but not a greater dynasty.

steelers still got the greatest football dynasty sewn up.

I agree with your assesment of the talent level..but with Moss on the team...you have to wonder about the Patriots ability to maintain the cohesiveness that they have always enjoyed.

[Livinginthe past]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

what i find conspicuously odd is the lemming like approach of those 95% of patfans. last year they wouldve been vehemently opposed to such a move. yet as soon as the deal has been struck it turns into another brilliant stroke of genius by pioli and belichick. what is odd is that his services are actually needed less this year than it was last with the upgrades to the passing game with stallworth.

I post on a Patriots board that im pretty sure is the most popular in the country - its often quoted in the local boston media when a 'voice of the fans' is required.

There are some fans who were opposed to Moss becoming a Patriot and remain so, others have softened their stance somewhat.

There were fans who were sceptical that it would ever happen (myself included), and now that Belichick and Pioli have given it their blessing I am 100% on board.

I would have been opposed to him being awarded a large contract on the hope he could make a previously weak WR corps stronger - Moss would then be the boss in that situation.

The fact is the Patriots F.O. does a better job at talent acquisition in the NFL (draft or FA) than anyone else - their recent record speaks for itself - these guys know what they are doing.

If the same deal were on the table last year - 4th rounder and a 1 year $3.5million contract - I am positive the Patriots would have pulled the trigger - I just dont think it was.

Either the Raiders were talking too much draft pick compensation (they reportedly wanted a 2nd rounder from Green Bay on a week or two ago) or Randy wasn't quite so desperate to move.

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

and on the flipside is the steelerfans who act like its a sin for even mentionning bringing moss in. even colbert admitted it was never even a consideration. like i said before, the patriots dont sweat it much if their players smoke pot or were busted on roids in the past (im all for 2nd chances). steelerfans seem like they would rather lose and be "classy".

The Steelers do pride themselves on being the 'class of the NFL' - its probably a deserved title but when it becomes a millstone round the neck of a franchise trying to remain competitive you have have to question the wisdom behind applying it so strictly.

The fact is decent guys find themselves in bad situations, with a bad crowd - having interviewed these guys and seen their potential - not just as players but as teammates it seems crazy to damn them forever for a past transgression.

We all make mistakes.

Steeler fans who say (and i've seen this recently) they would rather 'lose classy' than give a guy like Moss or Dillon a 2nd chance are deluding themselves - ask the same question when the Ravens are sacking the Pittsburgh franchise QB for the 7th time in a single game and you'll get a different answer.

I can tell you aren't one of these fans - you probably think outside the box better than others (trades for Ward and Faneca etc etc) - you never be proven right or wrong though because the Steelers F.O think in very straight lines.

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

what gets me is this false image the media portrays of the patriots always targetting "character" and "team" guys. its really a false misrepresentation. the patriots are like the bengals in many regards. they will take the players they feel has the best shot of leading them to wins, regardless. the only difference is the pats always gamble "smart" and their risks have generally paid off. they also have the leadership from the top that allows that.

Agreed. The false media image is very annoying - what New England excels at is having guys who love playing football - who have high character in terms of being good citizens and giving 100% on the field.

What they aren't is a bunch of working class heroes made good, and they certainly aren't angels of any description.

Typically, a writer for Boston media recently wrote about the Patriots abandoning their 'sanctamonious values' to recruit players of dubious character.

This is idiotic because you can't label a teams values 'sanctamonius' and then criticise them for abandoning them in the next breath - and as you said, it wasn't the Patriots who asked for this tedious label.

Strictly media invention.

The Bengals pick dumb because they dont understand the relationship beween a locker room full of dubious easily led characters and a team that is likely to run out of control.

They also don't understand that you must have a base of solid veteran citizens that can positively influence the younger impressionable guys.

Otherwise its just the blind leading the blind....to jail.

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

i think moss has a chance to revive his career with the pats, which is why i started this thread in the 1st place. if he were going to the bengals i would simply laugh and expext the same downward production he found with the raiders.

and while i was off on what the pats shoulda traded for him last season, i really wasnt too far off. the pats traded the 1st from seattle to sf, traded their 2nd to miami, and dont have cassell in their plans anytime soon. all were pretty much disposable pieces. the pats did well by holding off, although i believe they probably woulda had homefield advantage and another sb berth with moss last year.

You are right about the Bengals being a bad choice for Moss, I think Green Bay would have been a poor choice too - simply because they have little chance of giving Moss what he wants - a ring.

Moss to the Steelers should have been viable - plenty of solid citizens and a good chance of reaching the playoffs this years gets a whole lot likelier.

Like I said before, if the 4th rounder (or even some of the things you mentioned) would have got Moss for a year at the maximum cost of $5million they would have pulled the trigger.

I can only imagine that the situation wans't so buyer friendly last year.

HFA?

Probably.

[Livinginthe past]

Originally Posted by fansince'76

Do you think the Randy Moss deal is a one-year thing, even if things turn out well and he keeps his mouth shut and behaves? I doubt Moss is gonna be willing to play for a substantially reduced salary for long.

Im sure it can be a 1 year deal if the Patriots want it to remain so - its probably similar to the Stallworth deal in that they have an option on a 2nd,3rd and maybe 4th year for better money.

The Patriots will gauge his worth to the team - if he underperforms or simply overvalues his contribution to the team then he will be looking for a new team next year.

Maybe Moss is using this as a 1 year audition for another top team and big money, but then I guess he woud have taken a much bigger pay check in Green Bay.

[Livinginthe past]

Originally Posted by Preacher

True...

But then there is this question....


....with all the changes in the Patriot team, even if they win a fourth... can they be considered a dynasty, seeing as how they have changed/lost so many players from the first and even second SB win?

Yes they can, the salary cap means that player turnover is inevitable and much more so for successful teams.

The Colts D may well be unrecognisable from the team that played in the SB and that was only last year.

[Counselor]

Anyone read this article by Michael Silver on SI yet? I'd love to hear people's thoughts---especially you LITP.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ots/index.html

[Livinginthe past]

Originally Posted by Counselor

Anyone read this article by Michael Silver on SI yet? I'd love to hear people's thoughts---especially you LITP.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ots/index.html

Hmmmm.

Honest opinion?

Reconsituted garbage that I think Tony Hipchest and myself have covered in our previous couple of posts on this forum.

More tedious BS about the Patriots having to concede the 'moral high ground' - which they have never actually claimed to own in the first place.

The SuperBowl introductions the Patriots used has even come in for some abuse - Banks probably doesn't like the Patriots very much - and thats fine.

Heres a quick quote, to show you what I have already stated.

But I'll tell you this: I sure am sick of hearing the Patriots portrayed as the sole NFL team with principles and integrity, while their 31 competitors are depicted as heartless mercenaries who'd employ, say, Mel Gibson if he could run a 4.3 40 and play press coverage. (He definitely knows how to backpedal.)

Banks is part of the media who im sure bleats unendingly about the Patriots high-character , low talent, hard triers - its a myth created by people like Banks because they can't explain how the Patriots keep winning.