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Old 05-28-2007, 12:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: Economy robust, middle class income dropping?

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Don't forget that republican congress was around during the Clinton Administration as well. I'm also sick and tired of Democrats blaming us(The Republican Party) for the shape the country is in when all parties are responsible. A lot of Democrat like to act like Republicans are the only party in Congress when Republicans like myself know that it's not just Republicans in Congress, it's Republicans AND Democrats.
Yep, and in fairness stagflation, WIN, LBJ'sattempts to have both guns and butter,etc. happened before 1980.

Reagan did cause some damage, like allowing Japanese export subsidies and running up the deficit, but he's not to blame for the majority of the problem.
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Old 05-28-2007, 12:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: Economy robust, middle class income dropping?

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'76, I am pretty much rank and file. One of my fraternity brothers works for a local bank and makes $10,000,000 plus per year. Do I think he earns it, yes, he is brilliant!!! Could I ever do his job, no. Point being, anyone (like me) can do appropriate data entry out of 40 applicants. The CEO's, CFO's, Presidents, are like the rudder on a huge corporate ship, directing them to failure or success. Even at apparent "high" rates, brilliant people, like my frat bro, are often worth their pay. That is why they are paid the bucks. Capitalism. God Bless America!!!!
Not so sure...as others have already pointed out, CEOs get rich even when they do a horrible job. That's not capitalism.

And there are executives in other countries who could and would do the job for far less money. If we really had capitalism, CEO jobs would be outsourced in a heartbeat. Unfortunately we have cronyism on too many corporate boards--basically big companies are run by politicians who are generous with other people's money.
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Old 05-28-2007, 01:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: Economy robust, middle class income dropping?

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What do you really expect when you've had a Republican President and a Republican Congress in place for as long as we've had? It's not just BushCo either.

Go back and look at Reaganomics and you won't need to wonder about how we've gotten to this point.
Jeremy....not sure if you are able to remember far enough back....but prior to "reaganonics"...we were dealing with 18% interest rates and skyrocket inflation under Carter.....You really need to quit pointing fingers at one party ....If anyone here thinks that either party is the savior of this country they have neve met a politician.
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Old 05-28-2007, 02:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: Economy robust, middle class income dropping?

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Without trying to go off topic. I think the rate of decreased income and increased productivity can be traced to the decline of good paying union jobs.


Soooo true. It's all about corporate greed. I don't even believe there is a middle class anymore. And at 1 time, and most today, the middle class is the ones that keep this country going.
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Old 05-29-2007, 06:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Economy robust, middle class income dropping?

This is also a really complicated issue. Anyone remember when households were single income and only the man worked? It was an impossible dream to think that as the World shrank the US would be able to stay so dominant. Globalization was inevitable and is largely responsible for what we are seeing now. But politicians need to keep Americans thinking they are doing better then before, so they use tricks, like making it at first acceptable, and now commonplace for mothers too leave the home and work and artifically boost the per home income.

The Republicans and Democrats dreamed this one up together, so it's no sense trying to blame one or the other.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:03 PM   #16
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Default Re: Economy robust, middle class income dropping?

Typical talking points: When economy under President Clinton was raising all boats, only because the Republican Congress was the majority party. When the size of the military was reduced after the fall of the Berlin wall and cold war won single handedly by President Reagan, the same majority republican congress taking credit for the Clinton economy assigned all blame to Clintion for the reduction. Again "heads I win, tails you loose. Republicans can never accept responsiblity for anything, ever. Blame Clinton broken record is a tired argument. Seems to me both parties are responsible at least in part for all actions and results. Credit and blame can be assigned to both parties.
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:19 AM   #17
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Default Re: Economy robust, middle class income dropping?

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Originally Posted by steelerbackr4life View Post
I think the rate of decreased income and increased productivity can be traced to the decline of good paying union jobs.
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Soooo true. It's all about corporate greed.
Is it corporate greed to want a worker to actually earn their paycheck? The decline of good paying union jobs can be traced to the union greed as much as corporate greed. Funny how's it's considered greed for a company to make a profit, but it's ok for the unions to rob & steal from a company and their members.

One reason why they are making less is the work ethic of the 20 or 30 somethings isn't what it is of people in their 40's & 50's. Do they really deserve it or do they want it handed to them?
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: Economy robust, middle class income dropping?

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Is it corporate greed to want a worker to actually earn their paycheck? The decline of good paying union jobs can be traced to the union greed as much as corporate greed. Funny how's it's considered greed for a company to make a profit, but it's ok for the unions to rob & steal from a company and their members.

One reason why they are making less is the work ethic of the 20 or 30 somethings isn't what it is of people in their 40's & 50's. Do they really deserve it or do they want it handed to them?
AMEN Larry!

I moved to Detroit to work at Ford. Let me tell you what is killing the automotive industry. A guy on the line in a factory zipping two rivets into sheet metal all day long whining about making only $25 an hour and that he might lose his post retirement health care supplied by the company!!!! What a crock of shit!

If any area should know about the labor crisis and Union pay it is Pittsburgh. That is why the city was a decaying pit for 20+ years after all the mills closed.

These Union laborers are the same folks who have a summer home up north, boats, multiple cars nice homes, etc. For doing a repetitive job that a machine could do.

I am not saying I am any better (I work in IT) but I am not complaining, and I don't need a union.

The Unions were valuable earlier in the 20th century. Now, that all the labor laws they wanted were passed, they are unnecessary.

The same is happening in Detroit.
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Economy robust, middle class income dropping?

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Jeremy....not sure if you are able to remember far enough back....but prior to "reaganonics"...we were dealing with 18% interest rates and skyrocket inflation under Carter.....You really need to quit pointing fingers at one party ....If anyone here thinks that either party is the savior of this country they have neve met a politician.
Both have exacerbated the problem over the years. The problem is that we're dealing with lawyers and political science majors running the country's economy. None of these people really know what they're doing and many of them are unwilling to listen to people who do have an idea. I pointed our Reaganomics because it set the dangerous precedent of giving tax breaks to the higher income brackets in the futile hope that they would pass along the wealth. It was an idea that was needed at the time, but it has outlived it's usefulness and should be discarded. However, many conservatives today still cling to the theory.
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:54 PM   #20
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AMEN Larry!

I moved to Detroit to work at Ford. Let me tell you what is killing the automotive industry. A guy on the line in a factory zipping two rivets into sheet metal all day long whining about making only $25 an hour and that he might lose his post retirement health care supplied by the company!!!! What a crock of shit!

If any area should know about the labor crisis and Union pay it is Pittsburgh. That is why the city was a decaying pit for 20+ years after all the mills closed.

These Union laborers are the same folks who have a summer home up north, boats, multiple cars nice homes, etc. For doing a repetitive job that a machine could do.

I am not saying I am any better (I work in IT) but I am not complaining, and I don't need a union.

The Unions were valuable earlier in the 20th century. Now, that all the labor laws they wanted were passed, they are unnecessary.

The same is happening in Detroit.

The day you eliminate Unions is the same day that politicians start making plans to roll back those labor laws the unions fought so hard for.
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