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Old 06-28-2007, 09:14 AM   #21
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Default Re: US vs Japanese Cars and Workers

The Americans and the Japanese decided to engage in a competitive boat race. Both teams practiced hard and long to reach their peak performance.

On the big day they felt ready. The Japanese won by a mile. Afterward, the American team was discouraged by the loss. Morale sagged. Corporate management decided that the reason for the crushing defeat had to be found, so a consulting firm was hired to investigate the problem and recommended corrective action.

The consultant's finding: The Japanese team had eight people rowing and one person steering; the American team had one person rowing and eight people steering.

After a year of study and millions spent analyzing the problem, the consultant firm concluded that too many people were steering and not enough were rowing on the American team.

So as race day neared again the following year, the American team's management structure was completely reorganized. The new structure: four steering managers, three area steering managers and a new performance review system for the person rowing the boat to provide work incentive.

The next year, the Japanese won by two miles. Humiliated, the American corporation laid off the rower for poor performance and gave the managers a bonus for discovering the problem."
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:01 AM   #22
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Default Re: US vs Japanese Cars and Workers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfather View Post
The Americans and the Japanese decided to engage in a competitive boat race. Both teams practiced hard and long to reach their peak performance.

On the big day they felt ready. The Japanese won by a mile. Afterward, the American team was discouraged by the loss. Morale sagged. Corporate management decided that the reason for the crushing defeat had to be found, so a consulting firm was hired to investigate the problem and recommended corrective action.

The consultant's finding: The Japanese team had eight people rowing and one person steering; the American team had one person rowing and eight people steering.

After a year of study and millions spent analyzing the problem, the consultant firm concluded that too many people were steering and not enough were rowing on the American team.

So as race day neared again the following year, the American team's management structure was completely reorganized. The new structure: four steering managers, three area steering managers and a new performance review system for the person rowing the boat to provide work incentive.

The next year, the Japanese won by two miles. Humiliated, the American corporation laid off the rower for poor performance and gave the managers a bonus for discovering the problem."
Why does this sound like the company I work for now????
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: US vs Japanese Cars and Workers

Well...

I gotta say is, in my family, we have owned four american cars... three chevy's and a ford.

The first Chevy (early 80's) died at 5 miles, blown engine. Died again six months later, bad electirical system, and died two or three more times.

Second chevy (mid 80's) threw a rod, blowing out the engine at only 90,000 miles

Third car, Ford, early 90's blew a head gasket at 85,000 miles.

Fourth car, Chevy, Late 90's, early 2000's, blew the transmission at 60,000.
________________________________________________

We have also had four Japanese cars... all Nissan.

First car, bought in 85, Transmission starting slipping at 150,000+ miles, in 1997.

Second car, Had for seven years, multiple miles, no problems.

Third car, over 100,000 miles, no problems.

Fourth car, 130,000 miles, 1988 model, started have problems in 2000 with the first generation computer...
__________________________________________________ _

When you can buy a better car at a better price, you do it. I will not buy American cars.

The problem is the management, the workers, everything from top to bottom.

Oh yeah... and for the fallacious argument about the money going back to the far east... In this world's economy, that just doesn't happen. Money does not respect international borders anymore. follow me...

Let's say the profits get sent back to Japan. What happens to them? They get put into where? A bank? Okay. That bank now has an extra billion dollars, which it lends out at cut rate interest (since they are paying low interest on it) to other companies in Japan... Like AMERICAN companies competing over there.

However, That bank will more then likely turn around an invest that money back into the stock markets, so they can make money. Do you think they invest ONLY in japanese stocks or Asian stocks? No way. They MUST diversify all over the world so they don't get caught in a market crash, or a regional conflict like war or a terrorist attack that will depress regional markets. Thus, that money goes all over the world, including back to AMERICAN companies and banks.

The money that is then invested gives those people more buying power to increase thier businesses, which increases thier workers' buying power. And what do they buy? Products, many of which ARE MADE IN AMERICA...

Furthermore, Nissan, Toyota, etc., are almost all if not all PUBLICLY traded. WHich means, there are 10's of 1000's if not millions of people who make money EVERY YEAR BECAUSE Nissan, Toyota, etc. bring money back into thier company.

The old union paradigm of keep the jobs and money in the USA is simply passe. It is the equivelent of listening to music on an eight track tape. The world, the economies, the technology has passed that thought pattern by years ago. It is now irrelevant to the world we live in. What we are finding now, is that the companies and unions that can adapt to the new world will survive, the ones that bury thier head in the sand will not.

For a great examply, go look at the history of Big Blue (IBM).

Wow... did the computer age ever make a mockery out of them...
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Old 06-28-2007, 05:50 PM   #24
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Default Re: US vs Japanese Cars and Workers

Sorry, preacher, but that's spin, and I think it's the same type of spin that a lot of smart Americans tell themselves right before they walk into Wal-Mart every weekend.

As complicated as global markets are, It's more complicated than your examples. The quick and dirty version? It's never better for a Country to import things they are capable of making at a deficit. It's an incredibly complex economic model, and I'm too weary to get into it now, but when I get some time, I'll present some reasons and examples why.
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:29 PM   #25
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Default Re: US vs Japanese Cars and Workers

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
Sorry, preacher, but that's spin, and I think it's the same type of spin that a lot of smart Americans tell themselves right before they walk into Wal-Mart every weekend.

As complicated as global markets are, It's more complicated than your examples. The quick and dirty version? It's never better for a Country to import things they are capable of making at a deficit. It's an incredibly complex economic model, and I'm too weary to get into it now, but when I get some time, I'll present some reasons and examples why.
Gotta disagree...

It isn't spin, it is how the economy works. money doesn't disapear. The more open the markets are, the more the money will stay in circluation. Problems come wihen money does not circulate, but is hidden "under mattresses," which was the real cause of the great depression. People were too scared to spend money, thus, no one bought goods. the result? The economy came to a halt.

Funny thing. I usually get very leary when people try to make complex what is in actuality a very simple thing... It means that it is being overthought... usually to fit a certain predescribed model (No Revs.. I am not talking about you, but about the models you would present. They are put together by people with agendas... as are ALL things. And usually the more complex, the easier it is to fit the agenda.)

It is like foriegn relations. People try to come up with complex socio/political dynamics which incorporate 1000's of years of history and deal with a million variations... However, foriegn relations can best be described as 10 children in a room with 6 toys. Some will play nicely, some will take for themselves, others will try to police the entire room, some will only protect thier friends, and others just won't care and decide not to play at all.
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:22 PM   #26
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Post Re: US vs Japanese Cars and Workers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
Well...

I gotta say is, in my family, we have owned four american cars... three chevy's and a ford.

The first Chevy (early 80's) died at 5 miles, blown engine. Died again six months later, bad electirical system, and died two or three more times.

Second chevy (mid 80's) threw a rod, blowing out the engine at only 90,000 miles

Third car, Ford, early 90's blew a head gasket at 85,000 miles.

Fourth car, Chevy, Late 90's, early 2000's, blew the transmission at 60,000.
________________________________________________

We have also had four Japanese cars... all Nissan.

First car, bought in 85, Transmission starting slipping at 150,000+ miles, in 1997.

Second car, Had for seven years, multiple miles, no problems.

Third car, over 100,000 miles, no problems.

Fourth car, 130,000 miles, 1988 model, started have problems in 2000 with the first generation computer...
__________________________________________________ _

When you can buy a better car at a better price, you do it. I will not buy American cars.

The problem is the management, the workers, everything from top to bottom.

Oh yeah... and for the fallacious argument about the money going back to the far east... In this world's economy, that just doesn't happen. Money does not respect international borders anymore. follow me...

Let's say the profits get sent back to Japan. What happens to them? They get put into where? A bank? Okay. That bank now has an extra billion dollars, which it lends out at cut rate interest (since they are paying low interest on it) to other companies in Japan... Like AMERICAN companies competing over there.

However, That bank will more then likely turn around an invest that money back into the stock markets, so they can make money. Do you think they invest ONLY in japanese stocks or Asian stocks? No way. They MUST diversify all over the world so they don't get caught in a market crash, or a regional conflict like war or a terrorist attack that will depress regional markets. Thus, that money goes all over the world, including back to AMERICAN companies and banks.

The money that is then invested gives those people more buying power to increase thier businesses, which increases thier workers' buying power. And what do they buy? Products, many of which ARE MADE IN AMERICA...

Furthermore, Nissan, Toyota, etc., are almost all if not all PUBLICLY traded. WHich means, there are 10's of 1000's if not millions of people who make money EVERY YEAR BECAUSE Nissan, Toyota, etc. bring money back into thier company.

The old union paradigm of keep the jobs and money in the USA is simply passe. It is the equivelent of listening to music on an eight track tape. The world, the economies, the technology has passed that thought pattern by years ago. It is now irrelevant to the world we live in. What we are finding now, is that the companies and unions that can adapt to the new world will survive, the ones that bury thier head in the sand will not.

For a great examply, go look at the history of Big Blue (IBM).

Wow... did the computer age ever make a mockery out of them...


Never read more BS on theinternet anywhere, including many Browns and Bengal message boards.


If the owners are in Japan, China, or wherever, the money goes to them. I don't care where they put that money, bank, mattress, up there ....


Like I said all this BS about cars not made the same is exactly crap. They all use suppliers. All basically the same parts, just made to look different and put on the vehicles.


By the way, I own a 1999 Chevy S-10 and never had a single problem with it, and have over 162,000 mile on it. And my son has a 1995 Chevy S-10 that has had few problems with it. It is all perception, you just have a problem with the Big 3 cars is because they are union members.
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: US vs Japanese Cars and Workers

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Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan View Post
My point is that it is always easy for the coach to blame the overpaid and undermotivated players when his own job is on the line. But even if Bill Belichick and Art Shell had the same players my money would be on Belichick - same thing with Toyota/Honda v. GM/Ford.

Detroit automakers getting their ass kicked by the Japanese for the last 30 years has a lot more to do with poor management that they will ever admit. Like the Raiders, Detroit has been on a downhill slide for decades.
Possibly. I have had only American cars my entire life. This whole thing is a damn shame. Manufacturing is what made this country great. Look at what we did in WWII. I don't think management is the only problem in our car industry, but it definitely is a big part of it.
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Old 06-29-2007, 12:09 AM   #28
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Default Re: US vs Japanese Cars and Workers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
... It is like foriegn relations. People try to come up with complex socio/political dynamics which incorporate 1000's of years of history and deal with a million variations... However, foriegn relations can best be described as 10 children in a room with 6 toys. Some will play nicely, some will take for themselves, others will try to police the entire room, some will only protect thier friends, and others just won't care and decide not to play at all.
Well said. At least for me it is since I'm in foreign relations.

As for the money that's in Japan and where it goes, those rich Japanese waste them by sending some of them to the countries like Mongolia for an aid and buy bunch of stuff, including houses and restaurants, on the West Coast or Hawaii.
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:42 PM   #29
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Default Re: US vs Japanese Cars and Workers

Hey, preach, here are a few thoughts in how US car sales lagging hits hard at home:

First off, for every car manufacturing job created, it’s estimated that as many as 4-5 auto parts/suppliers jobs are also created. If those parts jobs aren’t also in the US, there is a big hit to US manufacturing. Manufacturing is still the basis for creation of wealth.

The argument that Friedman made that all the wealth will eventually make it’s way back to the US sounds good as long as the US economy remains the strongest in the World, but, in true catch-22 fashion, as more and more manufacturing shifts out of the Country, the economy of the US may no longer be the safest bet for investing.

US auto sales shrinking also have a direct impact on the entire US economic policy. Look up the Plaza Agreements from the Reagan years, not to mention the Fed taking lagging sales into consideration when determining the interest rates it charges. Those rates effect everything!

When US car sales shrink, it changes the prices the manufacturers can charge, not as much on new cars as on used, but both directly affect consumer pricing for all goods (Consumer Pricing Index, or CPI).

Looking even further down the road, if US sales continue to decrease, the US auto makers are going to get more aggressive about dumping their unfunded medical liabilities on us taxpayers. And don’t think for a second that it couldn’t happen. Remember who picked up the $150 billion tab for that fiasco?

Just touching a few bases here, but there is just no way that US auto makers losing ground to foreign competitors is good for the US economy.
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Old 06-30-2007, 12:11 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
Hey, preach, here are a few thoughts in how US car sales lagging hits hard at home:

First off, for every car manufacturing job created, it?s estimated that as many as 4-5 auto parts/suppliers jobs are also created. If those parts jobs aren?t also in the US, there is a big hit to US manufacturing. Manufacturing is still the basis for creation of wealth.

The argument that Friedman made that all the wealth will eventually make it?s way back to the US sounds good as long as the US economy remains the strongest in the World, but, in true catch-22 fashion, as more and more manufacturing shifts out of the Country, the economy of the US may no longer be the safest bet for investing.

US auto sales shrinking also have a direct impact on the entire US economic policy. Look up the Plaza Agreements from the Reagan years, not to mention the Fed taking lagging sales into consideration when determining the interest rates it charges. Those rates effect everything!

When US car sales shrink, it changes the prices the manufacturers can charge, not as much on new cars as on used, but both directly affect consumer pricing for all goods (Consumer Pricing Index, or CPI).

Looking even further down the road, if US sales continue to decrease, the US auto makers are going to get more aggressive about dumping their unfunded medical liabilities on us taxpayers. And don?t think for a second that it couldn?t happen. Remember who picked up the $150 billion tab for that fiasco?

Just touching a few bases here, but there is just no way that US auto makers losing ground to foreign competitors is good for the US economy.


Best post Ever! Excellent Post revefreleets.
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