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Old 07-19-2007, 02:38 PM   #41
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Default Re: Oh, the irony!

Race such a funny topic that people by all races keep it going. N word, now that is funny that they even call each other that, it simple means in lame terms ignorant in the dictionary. So if they like calling each other ignorant which means in other terms dumb so be it. I could care less if they would call me honky are cracker, sure I honk my car when some almost hits me, and even have some cheese on my crackers. I simply do not let it bother me. But some people are still to dumb and ignorant to see threw it all and do not want to get along. I would rather make new friends and get along. But hey this world is not peachy.
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:23 PM   #42
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Default Re: Oh, the irony!

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Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
The problem is that there is way to much symbolism, and very little substance to what is done on the racial front these days... and politics are completely at the core of it.

I have a unique perspective, as I grew up in a very white area. There was one black kid in my grade school and 3 in my highschool. Interestingly, they were all treated very well. This I know, because they were some of the most popular people at school.

However, as I stated in other threads, I have pastored in inner-city black neighborhoods, now pastoring in a predominantly Latino neighborhood, married a Jewish woman (who believes in Jesus), etc. etc.

What I have found is that racism is an untamed extension of every humans xenophobic tenancy. Xenophobia (in its proper understanding, not as a euphemism for racism) is useful, in some places good as it keeps humans safe in circumstances they are not aware of. The fear of others and other cultures often will keep a person quite and observing. However, there are a number of times when Xenophobia back-channels into what could be best described as a "reverse culture shock." This happens when the culture that is surrounding a person is being changed by another race that is coming into the community, changing the dynamic of the community. The original race thus reacts to the changes with fear and strikes out verbally, physically, or harbors much resentment. This phenomenon is seen in the words WOP (W) ith (O) ut (P) apers (or passports). It was a reaction to Italians coming over and bringing a culture with them that was distinctly different the culture in the surrounding community. The same can be same for the Asians, Irish, etc. etc. However, EVERY community deals with these problems. Watc ANY community of ANY race deal with the changing culture of that community as it involves another culture, and you will have the same issues.

In other places, racism is blunt and open. In the United States, the issue of racism and blacks is, HAS TO BE, distinctly different then the issue of racism for any other race, and thus solved differently. The black community was the only community that was literally enslaved for centuries, freed, and then re-enslaved by our government into the social welfare system destroying families... If you don't believe me, ask a single mother what happens if she marries the father of the child.

Now that happens in all races, however, in the U.S., we have tilted the scales. We have created public schools which fail to teach the children, but not given the inner-city children the rights or ability to go to private schools through vouchers if their public schools fail them. Then, We tell them that they are not good enough to compete with other races and add "bonus points" for their color in college entrances... and YES.. that absolutely happens. Then, in college, we have created a whole department for black people to study "African studies." Now while that is nice, it provides for a GREAT MINIMUM WAGE JOB when they graduate. THen, politicians come along again and blame it on these people, those people, history, etc.. and here is a a few more dollars if you keep voting for me. Thus, there goes another generation. It is SO BAD now that in many places, if a black child gets good grades, he gets jumped after school and is told to stop selling out the race. Yes, I know second-hand about this, as I have spoken to people who have seen or participated in it. Why does it happen? Because young childrne are now believing the lies that excelling in education is for white and asian kids, not black kids.

That is why I look at the NAACP, and shake my head. Because they don't have the intestinal fortitude to deal with the real problems at hand, lest they lose some of their own political power. Instead, they attack a word, instead of the institutional prejudices that are behind the word.

Racial tensions will always exist. All it takes is another culture moving into the area. However, what needs to change is the institutionalized lies that are now sold to the black community.

Of course, the organized intelligentsia that is driving the racial discussion now is the same group (Media heads, politicians, university heads, and profs, etc), that was driving Eugenics in its hey-day.

Now that I have thoroughly ticked off 80 percent of the board... I will go back into hiding!
Don't count me as one who is ticked-off. Rather one who appreciates a different perspective. I thought I should add a new perspective.

I had the fortune of teaching Strength & Conditioning to scholarship & non-scholarship athletes at a D1 University of California campus for seven years. My expertise was in Men's Basketball.Our team was 60% Black and 40% white, that arrived from many different demographics. Through our many conversations, both in the weight room and at BBQ's at my home, we discussed many topics.

Regarding a college education; The overwhelming opinion was that a college education is intended to open your mind to new and different perspectives, increase your critical thinking capacity, and expand your knowledge in different subjects. Not one person ever mentioned finding a job in the exact subject that they studied. They spoke of being a productive citizen in society by utilizing their knowledge while respecting differences, strengths and weaknesses.

Many have gone on to play basketball in other countries, France, Belgium, Italy, Germany, New Zeland, Luxemborg, Mexico, Argentina, Japan, just to name a few. Others, even with a degree in Black Studies, have become teachers and one very successful Real Estate Agent.

Preacher, what you see as adding "...bonus points", I see as a method to diversify the campus that will add to the respect and identify differences in socionomics. It offers opportunity to some who, as reflected by history, may not have the means. To me that spells opportunity for all to learn from one another, not you are "not good enough to compete with other races." While it would be optimal to say the field is level and all should be treated equal no matter what, but that would be completely ignoring our historical actions as a country. We are progressing, but as obvious as this and many other similar threads prove, we are not there yet. I agree with you that racial tensions will always exist. That's exactly why we must always do battle with them, to eradicate them, as a goal, as one.

Thanks for reading a different perspective. I also appreciate yours and enjoy reading your posts.
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:12 PM   #43
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Default Re: Oh, the irony!

Steelerstrength... Excellent post. Thanks for thinking through the response... Let me add a few things here.

Quote:
Don't count me as one who is ticked-off. Rather one who appreciates a different perspective. I thought I should add a new perspective.
But what if I don't want a new perspective? I enjoyed the post...

Quote:
I had the fortune of teaching Strength & Conditioning to scholarship & non-scholarship athletes at a D1 University of California campus for seven years. My expertise was in Men's Basketball.Our team was 60% Black and 40% white, that arrived from many different demographics. Through our many conversations, both in the weight room and at BBQ's at my home, we discussed many topics.

Regarding a college education; The overwhelming opinion was that a college education is intended to open your mind to new and different perspectives, increase your critical thinking capacity, and expand your knowledge in different subjects.
That's excellent. I wonder though if those students are a normal sample of the black student population... or any student population for that matter. I would suggest that a student that puts out that much effort at a sport has the ability to understand what dedication is across the board. As a result, they have a belief in themselves that many students, I would argue especially those from inner-city homes and school do not have.

Maybe I should have been clearer in my original post that I see this issue mainly with inner-city black children... and adults for that matter. Interestingly, it is also affecting inner-city white children, at this point, almost the same way. To a person though, it also depends on parenting, which gets into a whole different ball game. Two things happened to black men which have destroyed the black family. 1. Welfare... the state has taken the place of the man in families. 2. Vietnam. Many Many lower class black men were taken from their homes and young families and sent to Vietnam via the draft. This didn't affect white men as much because if you were in college for the most part, you were exempt from the draft. The parents of these men were share-croppers... or one generation removed, and completely destitute. Thus, this second generation, which normally generates the wealth in the family (2nd generation in a new country, or freed in a country), was not able to free their families. There were thousands upon thousands of families that were destroyed.

In the end, these families never climbed out of the system. What I would want to know, is what was your students background, and how did they make it out of the inner-city if that was their beginning. My care is not to place blame, but to find answers...

Quote:
Not one person ever mentioned finding a job in the exact subject that they studied. They spoke of being a productive citizen in society by utilizing their knowledge while respecting differences, strengths and weaknesses.

Many have gone on to play basketball in other countries, France, Belgium, Italy, Germany, New Zeland, Luxemborg, Mexico, Argentina, Japan, just to name a few. Others, even with a degree in Black Studies, have become teachers and one very successful Real Estate Agent.
A degree opens doors, period. I agree. However, a degree in philosophy, science, medicine, math (engineering), etc. opens more doors.

Quote:
Preacher, what you see as adding "...bonus points", I see as a method to diversify the campus that will add to the respect and identify differences in socionomics. It offers opportunity to some who, as reflected by history, may not have the means. To me that spells opportunity for all to learn from one another, not you are "not good enough to compete with other races." While it would be optimal to say the field is level and all should be treated equal no matter what, but that would be completely ignoring our historical actions as a country.
In the first part, (bolded) I understand the needed to offer opportunity to those who have been shunted by the historical racism that have been experienced in the US. What I don't understand however, is fixing the problem by not addressing the problem itself. Adding points to an application because of race doesn't address the issue that the person wasn't able to score high enough on SAT's, grades, entrance interview, etc. It simply gives the person a chance to get into school with a little bit lower overall bar. I would even be happy if these issues were actually addressed in college. But they don't seem to be. Instead, the overall level of college education seems to be diminishing (Not blaming this subject, but just hte overall level). That is why I would prefer to see inner-city students have the ability to take their federal education money, and walk away from a failing school to a private school that can give them the education.

To the second half of the post, I agree that the field should be treated equal, but can't yet because there are boneheads everywhere... on all sides. However, when it comes to employment, who is the employer going to want to give a raise or a promotion too? The person who makes the most money for the company and runs the tightest shop, without regard to race (hopefully). My problem with the whole thing is that by recognizing the problem and creating a system which tilts to accommodate the problem of racism, racism is entrenched deeper instead of eliminated. I would rather fix the problem itself (as I am sure you would... please don't read this as me saying you don't wanna!!). In my opinion, that means we must have a complete reformation of the public school system, with focus on improving or eliminating inner-city public schools (elimination would be tied in with the federal education money and bussing to private schools of the students choice within a certain radius). Yes, that would cost more money. But it is the least we can do as we built this country on the backs of slaves for the first hundred years.

Quote:
We are progressing, but as obvious as this and many other similar threads prove, we are not there yet. I agree with you that racial tensions will always exist. That's exactly why we must always do battle with them, to eradicate them, as a goal, as one.
I agree. However, I don't think it will ever be done, but that is a theological belief. However, if you were in my church last Sunday, you would have seen Latino, Black, White, Jews (who follow Jesus), and Gentiles all worshiping and eating together, without a care for race. It was wonderful.
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Thanks for reading a different perspective. I also appreciate yours and enjoy reading your posts.
Likewise. Education comes with the free and unhindered exchange of ideas... one place where Political correctness is destroying education.
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:23 PM   #44
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Default Re: Oh, the irony!

Hey preach, you bust me up! "What if I don't want a new perspective?" How many times have you felt that from someone you are trying to converse with?

I also hear you on the reformation of the school system. Let's reform our political system while we are at it! Deal?

There were a few inner-city kids who struggled with authority. They also had issue's back home with friends getting killed, and family communication issue's. Intellect was not the issue, they did have to meet high standards to even enroll at a UC school, scholarship or not. The UC system is very strict with their student-athlete standards. Those are the things that made it tougher for them to maintain grades. To help the situation, one family actually moved to a better neighborhood. Now that's sacrifice, and one they could barely afford! I do know that the athlete was sending some of his scholarship money home just to help his brothers and sisters. The parents would not have any of that, so it was all incognito. Well, that young man just had a try-out for the Atlanta Hawks. Not sure he will make it, but that usually opens the door to Europe, and a healthy contract and life experience.

You are correct about the level of dedication these athletes possessed coming in. I could see the lack of possibilities without basketball in their lives.

Nice to hear about the diversity in your church! By the way, I'm Mexican-American, my wife is Jewish.
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:25 PM   #45
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Default Re: Oh, the irony!

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Hey preach, you bust me up! "What if I don't want a new perspective?" How many times have you felt that from someone you are trying to converse with?
Hey... I converse with Tony Hip all the time!!

Quote:
I also hear you on the reformation of the school system. Let's reform our political system while we are at it! Deal?
I believe in miracles... never said I was a miracle worker!!!

Quote:
There were a few inner-city kids who struggled with authority. They also had issue's back home with friends getting killed, and family communication issue's.
Yep, I know and understand. It is SO tough to reach them.

Quote:
Intellect was not the issue, they did have to meet high standards to even enroll at a UC school, scholarship or not. The UC system is very strict with their student-athlete standards. Those are the things that made it tougher for them to maintain grades.
I agree... Intellect never is the issue, it is the information that is given to the intellect to process. My argument is that the information is skewed or not available because of bad teaching, etc. THen, they are taugh that the problem is not that they are missing info, but that it is something else, maybe even not as smart. That is what burns me up about all of this.

Quote:
To help the situation, one family actually moved to a better neighborhood. Now that's sacrifice, and one they could barely afford! I do know that the athlete was sending some of his scholarship money home just to help his brothers and sisters. The parents would not have any of that, so it was all incognito. Well, that young man just had a try-out for the Atlanta Hawks. Not sure he will make it, but that usually opens the door to Europe, and a healthy contract and life experience.
That is what I kind of surmised when discussing the difference between the kids you worked with and the ones I was thinking about. The kids you worked with... will jump on every opportunity given to better themselves. I just hope and want it to be available for them to do that, instead of them being kept down by institutional bias from those who are claiming to care... Like the NAACP.

Quote:
You are correct about the level of dedication these athletes possessed coming in. I could see the lack of possibilities without basketball in their lives.
I am right on something? Dang, that doesn't happen too often..... I am married!!

Quote:
Nice to hear about the diversity in your church! By the way, I'm Mexican-American, my wife is Jewish.
Very Very Interesting!!!

Funny thing is, our church doesn't look or see it as diversity. Simply as being one body in Christ.
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