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Old 08-06-2007, 09:43 PM   #21
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Default Re: Al Sharpton...Again!

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
Yes, Christians should be blamed for Phelps and Robertson. Those two gain their political clout from strong Religious Right backing, which they neither deny nor hide from. Quite frankly, I'd say that's a pretty apt comparison, though. What, exactly, do Al and Jesse do? How do they get financed? It certainly isn't through the white media.

Duke is not an apt comparison, because he's white and is of the majority. It takes a much smaller (percentage wise) mobilized and galvanized voter bloc amongst a majority to get elected, especially in an overall population of apathetic and indifferent voters.
Absolutely not. PHelps is considered a fraud amongst evangelical Christians. He is a joke and has had NO backing from religious right backing. Matter of fact, his church is mainly made up of his own family. it is all a joke.

Robertson is another ballgame... and most of what has been attributed to him.... he didn't even say.

So no, those two are bad examples in this argument.
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:04 AM   #22
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Default Re: Al Sharpton...Again!

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Absolutely not. PHelps is considered a fraud amongst evangelical Christians. He is a joke and has had NO backing from religious right backing. Matter of fact, his church is mainly made up of his own family. it is all a joke.

Robertson is another ballgame... and most of what has been attributed to him.... he didn't even say.

So no, those two are bad examples in this argument.
I got Phelps mixed up with Falwell. Phelps is that dingbat out in Kansas that protests soldiers funerals, right?
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: Al Sharpton...Again!

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I got Phelps mixed up with Falwell. Phelps is that dingbat out in Kansas that protests soldiers funerals, right?
Yes...their "church" is more of a cult. No Christian in their right mind would back them.

I am a born again agnostic. I was raised Catholic, went to a Catholic elementary school and was an un-abused altar boy. Study of history and the molestation cover ups made me "lose my religion" as it were. I did marry a stout and good Catholic girl but I don't go to church with her.

The religious right includes the Islamic fascists, let's not forget. There are extremes in the Christian right (Phelps) and Islamic right (Taliban, etc.). The problem is there is not enough condemnation from the moderates of these extremes?in both religions. And the extremes get the most air time and make the rest look bad.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:48 PM   #24
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Default Re: Al Sharpton...Again!

Since we are "coming out", I'm sort of a pseudo agnostic, but I definitely believe there is a God of some sort. Religions bother me when they force feed that ONLY their particular God is the right one. Unfortunately, that's the driving message behind almost all religions. I find it very interesting that the two most dominant religions today (Christianity and Islam) are the among the newest and the least tolerant.
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Old 08-07-2007, 04:30 PM   #25
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Default Re: Al Sharpton...Again!

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Since we are "coming out", I'm sort of a pseudo agnostic, but I definitely believe there is a God of some sort. Religions bother me when they force feed that ONLY their particular God is the right one. Unfortunately, that's the driving message behind almost all religions. I find it very interesting that the two most dominant religions today (Christianity and Islam) are the among the newest and the least tolerant.
I would take umbrage to this statement.

Christian is not a "new religion" Historically, it is a sect of Judaism. The only difference between the two is that we think the prophecies have already been fulfilled, and tradtional Jews are still looking for them to be fulfilled. As a result, we see the roots of our faith not in Peter, Paul, and Jesus, but in Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As a result, our faith is the longest standing faith tradition. Hindhuism came into its own abut 1500 BC, about four hundred years after the OT puts God as revealing himself to Abraham. Zoroastrianism was founded almost a millennium later, as was Buddhism (many would argue Buddhism is to Hinduism what Christianity is to Judaism, placing its date with that of Hindhuism), Shintoism, etc.

There is also an extreme lack of understanding in those who see no difference between conservative Islam and conservative Christianity. Christianity in its most true form is one that has NO involvement in worldy government. Its sole purpose is to reach others for Jesus Christ. As a result, true conservative Christianity will be somewhat socially conscious, but on a personal level, interacting with individuals. What you have seen in history is NOT christianity, but politicians and powergrabbers that have appropriated parts of a number of religions to themself to consolidate power. The term Christendom is best used to describe this. Christendom was used to expand power in the middle ages. It was used to justify the crusades, etc. however, it had nothing to do with christianity. The crusades were about putting down the rise of nationalism in Europe by sending the young princess off to battle in foriegn lands. It was about sending off serfs that were getting restless, in promises of land. It had nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

Islam is not the same. In Islam, even peaceful Islam, the governments and religion are combined into one as CONDONED by the Koran. Furthermore, Islam has, from its earliest days, been spread by the sword. Christianity has not. All of the ANE (ancient near east) was introduced to Christianity through peaceful missionaries. It was only after the roman catholic church (middle age church) corrupted the faith (There were many true believers as well, this is not a slight to modern Catholics who believe in Jesus) that we get what is referred today as Christianity being spread by the sword.

And about being least tolerant, that is also not true. Ask China and Korea about the tolerance of Shinto Japan, a religion which teaches that the island and its descandants are all in the line of Gods, with their emperor being a direct descendant, therefore all they do, over the 2000 years to the chinease and koreans, was ordained by God.

Ask the Christians in India what the Hindu's do to them. Ask the Seik's what happens to them in India.

Read Roman history, and learn what happened to Christians that refused to worship the emporer, or the Goddess Roma.

I believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven. That doesn't mean I don't tolerate anyone else. I tolerate everyone else. I also engage them in respectful discussions about my faith. You will find that most true Christians, not those who hold to a culture of Christendom, but true Christians do the same.
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Old 08-07-2007, 05:04 PM   #26
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Default Re: Al Sharpton...Again!

"I believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven".

And you want to lay claim to roots in Judaism to legitimize the age of your religion, but all the Jews who don't believe in Jesus burn in Hell, which pretty much comes down to their religion only being useful to a point. It's this kind of thing that disturbs me so deeply about organized religion. I'm not even gonna get into what the Catholic Church did to your bible.

Anyway, this is where I jump off. Nothing good can come from further discussion on this matter.
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Old 08-07-2007, 05:30 PM   #27
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Default Re: Al Sharpton...Again!

Good points Preacher, and I agree. But, the truth is that organized religion has been used as a catalyst for more death and war throughout human history then any other cause. On some stoic level this must seem absurd. Christianity is included in this, no matter the motives. While many of the Bishops, monarchies (and even the Pope) believed that they were achieving a political gain from the Crusades, the common man who fought in them did not necessarily see things that way. One can't excuse the naive masses...much as we couldn't excuse the naive masses who follow the 'Sword" of modern Islam.
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:32 PM   #28
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Default Re: Al Sharpton...Again!

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Good points Preacher, and I agree. But, the truth is that organized religion has been used as a catalyst for more death and war throughout human history then any other cause. On some stoic level this must seem absurd. Christianity is included in this, no matter the motives. While many of the Bishops, monarchies (and even the Pope) believed that they were achieving a political gain from the Crusades, the common man who fought in them did not necessarily see things that way. One can't excuse the naive masses...much as we couldn't excuse the naive masses who follow the 'Sword" of modern Islam.
Hammer,,,

I agree...

What I am arguing is not what the masses have done, but what the reality of the faith itself is. Any and every good thing can and is turned to some type of destructive force.

My point on the crusades is not that the masses were naive, but that most of the masses weren't even really fighting for "Christianity."

You and I however, have a lot of agreement.



REV... I am sorry you feel that you can't continue this discussion. I applaud your foresight and respect. However, if you would like to continue this, either on this board, or in a PM, I would be willing to do so. I will also share with you up front that I will be respectful in all my postings on this subject.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:32 PM   #29
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Default Re: Al Sharpton...Again!

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I got Phelps mixed up with Falwell. Phelps is that dingbat out in Kansas that protests soldiers funerals, right?
Yep..

Thanks for the clarification!

Ding-bat I haven't heard that used in YEARS.. I love it!
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Old 08-08-2007, 08:46 AM   #30
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Default Re: Al Sharpton...Again!

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This is so funny and I know it shouldn't be.......Because this is exactly the kind of BS that all of these so-called spokes people are trying to stir up....They want everything to be up in chaos and everyone pointing the finger at each other, their race, religion, or political preference....Whatever happened to just respecting the fact and agreeing that it is okay to have different opinions.
However, I will say that if certain races don't want their spokespeople to have the power to speak for them, then they should stand up publicly to denounce them..................

And, just a quite note about David Duke.........Isn't it crazy that a man like that would ever be voted into office.....I definitely cannot condone that......But then again, have you ever lived in Louisiana? ( I am sure it can't be too much different than Miss.) There is a lot of hate here and a lot is based on color, but there is more that is based on attitude and actions.....There is a lot of that here and it makes people prejudice...People get tired of that kind of crap and they go to the extreme..........Didn't say it was right, but it is a fact...................I have lived a lot of places and Louisiana is my home, but I certainly ain't bragging about it....It is certainly arse backwards and there are a lot of people who are scared of the thug element here................Louisiana is also almost at the bottom of every good national list and at the top of every bad list...EX: Top in welfare and bottom of education.
Katrina evacuee here. I lived in SE Louisiana for 12 years. Plenty of idiocy on both sides in New Orleans...which is why most people with a brain, both black and white, have moved away over the last 50 years.
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